Amateur Archaeologist of the Unknown ([info]sil_no_kozi) wrote in [info]childfree,
@ 2005-10-10 23:20:00
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Current mood: pissed off

Tit-Nazis invade Wisconsin
Well, I see breeder-pleasers and hardcore-types alike have contributed to shitting up my thread. Good going missing the real issue: the entitlement of one particular niche group of people over everyone else. Every single thread about breast-feeding turns into a hatefest on both sides on this group, and it speaks very little for what we ought to be more concerned about (in this case, moomies receiving extra-special rights over all men, bottle-feeders, CFers, and women who just want to let it all hang out). It's too late to clarify the point of my post, but then it still likely wouldn't have mattered when some people just have to get the last word in. Like myself.

I apologize in advance if I've missed a post (after checking over the past several days) where this has already been discussed:

A bill that would protect breastfeeding women from harassment was introduced into the state Senate Wednesday at the Capitol.

State Sen. Fred Risser, D-Madison, authored the bill that would make it illegal for people to discriminate against women who breastfeed in public.

“Basically it gives a statutory right for a woman to breastfeed her child in any public or private place where she is able to be,” Risser said. “Some people still are upset at breastfeeding in public and some women have been harassed by others, so we hope this bill would reduce that.”


The Orlando-based radio program the Phillips Phile brought this to my attention. If this bill is passed, someone who "harasses" (whatever that is) a breastfeeding mother in public could be ticketed with fines possibly in the hundreds of dollars. I wonder if this accounts for the attachment parent who publicly feels she has the right to breastfeed her four-year-old? Does this mean a breastfeeding mother could just take her shirt clean off in public, floppy-titted and entitled, and not be subject to any other decency laws whatsoever?

Here's another point of interest, unrelated but in the same story:

In another legislative act Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary, Corrections and Privacy Committee approved a bill that would protect doctors from lawsuits brought by the parents of disabled children who claim the doctors did not adequately identify possible birth defects in their kids. Under the bill, parents would not be able to sue doctors because they felt they were prevented from obtaining abortions due to the doctors’ failure to disclose the abnormalities. (bold my own)



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[info]takami826
2005-10-11 03:37 am UTC (link)
Then they should have no issues if I rend my garments and fuck my SO on the table. OR drop my drawers and unleash a taco bell like fury. Hey, it's NATURAL.

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[info]vandonovan
2005-10-11 03:48 am UTC (link)
I agree. I'm going to start pooping on tables and urinating in trashcans and masturbating in public as those things are actually less offense. (Well, pooping on a table is gross, but piss in a trash can or privately masturbating in public and not leaving a mess? Just as valid as popping out a breast in public and feeding a sprog with it.)

DO IT IN THE BATHROOM IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT.

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[info]venusflesh
2005-10-11 03:46 am UTC (link)
What a pile of shit. Stupid tit-nazi cows.

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[info]januarygirl66
2005-10-11 03:47 am UTC (link)
Breast-feeding isn't poop and it isn't sex. It's nourishment. When done right, no one notices unless they really, really stare. Lots of babies nurse like every 2 hours. It's really hard to go out only in-between feedings and public bathrooms....? I don't even want to pee in one, let alone bring a baby in one! Ew!

That second part though...? WRONG.

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[info]vandonovan
2005-10-11 03:49 am UTC (link)
Um, how about 1.) bringing a baby bottle, 2.) staying home if you have a baby that nurses that much, 3.) doing it in your car or in a clean bathroom?

Maybe if moomys didn't make a big deal of it but, hey, they usually do. It's usually like "HAY HERE'S MY BOOB LET ME FEED MY SPROG OMG WHY ARE YOU STARING YOU PERVERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sigh.

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[info]sil_no_kozi
2005-10-11 03:53 am UTC (link)
What I especially take objection to is Risser's mention of "private place." Does this mean if a private business owner objects to a messy, obvious, inconsiderate sort of breastfeeding on their own private property, they are still fined when they politely ask the woman not to be so inconsiderate of other customers and the woman claims this was "harassment?" Unless there are many, many particulars within the bill itself, there's plenty of potential for abuse here.

Besides, responsible state Senators should be focusing on much more important things than breastfeeding. This a ploy for the SaHM vote and nothing more.

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[info]sil_no_kozi
2005-10-11 04:18 am UTC (link)
When done right, no one notices unless they really, really stare.

You're right. I usually avoid even looking at kids to begin with, so if it even dawns on me someone is breastfeeding I'm like "...oh, well damn, okay," and get on with my day.

And yeah, that second part...hell, with all the debate going above and below this post there, I ought to repost it as a stand-alone thread.

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(no subject) - [info]takami826, 2005-10-11 10:25 am UTC (Expand)
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[info]compwizrd
2005-10-11 03:56 am UTC (link)
Does this mean a breastfeeding mother could just take her shirt clean off in public, floppy-titted and entitled, and not be subject to any other decency laws whatsoever?
Well, in Ontario, Canada, it's already legal for all women to go topless anyways.

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[info]seana_s
2005-10-11 11:40 am UTC (link)
Okay, I like that law a whole lot more! That's real equality. (I wanna move now...)

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[info]lyme
2005-10-11 04:07 am UTC (link)
Fucking stupid.

'Harassment' is such a goddamn wide, broad term that if this bullshit cockamamy law gets passed it'll get abused.

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[info]layered
2005-10-11 04:34 am UTC (link)
... so, wait. If I'm just standing around and someone decides to "harass" me, I suck it up and deal. Because I'm an adult, and - though sticks and stones may in fact break my bones, words will never hurt me.

If some holier-than-thou tit-nazi is "harassed", she, what? Contacts police by some tit-nazi-signal (maybe a light shaped like a boob flashing in the air) and the mean ol' "harasser" gets a big fine?




Okayyy...

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[info]pink_porcupette
2005-10-11 04:35 am UTC (link)
Everyone is aware that quite a few diseases can be passed through breast milk, yes? It is a bodily secretion, and while I know most babies aren't going to be slobbering the milk all over in huge puddles, they still have to have some regulations about what you can and cannot do in public. IF not, why can't I have sex in public, as long as I'm 'discreet' and people can't see our 'naughty bits'? Isn't it natural? If you think there is something perverted or unnatural about sex, then you have issues blah blah blah blah
And I think you are debating this with the wrong people. How stupid do you have to be to not realize most childfree people don't want to see that when they go out?

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[info]pepperbeast
2005-10-11 05:07 am UTC (link)
I'm CF, and I don't care one way or the other. Unlike many people here, I can live and let live. And what I _want_ to see is neither here nor there.

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Idiot. - [info]pink_porcupette, 2005-10-12 01:51 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]coanteen, 2005-10-12 02:32 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]pink_porcupette, 2005-10-12 03:17 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]coanteen, 2005-10-12 03:32 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]pink_porcupette, 2005-10-12 04:27 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]coanteen, 2005-10-12 04:37 am UTC (Expand)
sucking - [info]pink_porcupette, 2005-10-12 05:11 am UTC (Expand)
Re: sucking - [info]coanteen, 2005-10-12 06:49 am UTC (Expand)
Re: sucking - [info]vasaris, 2005-10-12 05:25 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Idiot. - [info]veronica_rich, 2005-10-12 02:46 am UTC (Expand)

[info]sarahsaturn
2005-10-11 04:52 am UTC (link)
ha. if that bill passes i'm never wearing a shirt here again.

(Reply to this)


[info]moonwrangler
2005-10-11 05:00 am UTC (link)
Well, I can't see the objection to the second bill, especially as someone who's pro-choice. I don't see why a doctor should be allowed to withhold any information.

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[info]terired
2005-10-11 05:24 am UTC (link)
Uh parents would not be able to sue

So the doctor could tell you that you're going to have a health baby when they know that you have a huge chance of having a child with a defect and essentially have no fear of law suit. Though I'd probably say that this bill is more because people have had children with defects and sued the doctors claiming they must have knew.

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(no subject) - [info]kusanagimotoko, 2005-10-11 11:42 am UTC (Expand)

[info]rantspace
2005-10-11 05:09 am UTC (link)
While I think an actual law protecting breastfeeding mothers from harrassment ought to be (and probably is?) unnecessary, I have never really cared one way or the other about babies sucking on boobs in public. I just don't care. As far as I'm concerned, it shuts the baby up and keeps it happy and well fed, which is better than the alternative.

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[info]cally7
2005-10-11 09:40 am UTC (link)
Fantastic reply. Sensible and logical.

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[info]sapphire_knight
2005-10-11 06:30 am UTC (link)
Damn, I can't find again the certain comment by Little Miss CF TitNazi, but here is my response nonetheless:

What part of "no, I don't want a glimpse of strangers' unattractive boobs" is so hard to understand?!

(Reply to this)


[info]lind_zee
2005-10-11 09:22 am UTC (link)
The fact that your entire thread reads exactly like the recent "debate" episode of Dr. Phil amused the hell out of me. I extend my pity to you and your inbox.

On topic: I notice the article didn't define "harassment". A defense against sexual harassment I can understand --but I see verbal harassment practiced against formula-feeding mom's by tit-Nazi’s all the time. "Oh my God! Feeding your poor, defenseless baby formula will give him cancer/make him stupid/turn him into a serial killer!" Seriously? Laws like that should swing both ways, bitches.

Also: if the parents of these disabled children aren’t allowed to sue for malpractice, then where the hell is the money to take care of their handicapped kids going to come from? (And yes, that’s what malpractice settlements are used for.)

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[info]lind_zee
2005-10-11 09:27 am UTC (link)
Ahem. Sorry for the 3AM grammar. Usually I’m literate, I swear!

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[info]cally7
2005-10-11 09:50 am UTC (link)
Boob nazis get on my tits (sorry) they make it difficult for the sensible people to get on and bring their kids up with the least fuss possible. If women breast feed properly no one will see any boobage or any secretions. It isn't difficult to hide all bits and pieces with a cloth nappy or a little blanket. It's the rampant moos who want to flop it out defiantly for all to see that get up my nose. "I am lactating mother hear me moo!" Really they are doing everyone more harm than good. That is when every mother, for some reason especially the responsible ones even more, gets painted with the same dirty brush.

No one has to see anything if people (women) used an ounce of common sense. In fact a few months back I was out hsopping and I sat down next to a young mother holding her baby and it took a couple of minutes to realise she was nursing, that was how discrete she was being. So it is possible not only to do it without showing everything but without people even noticing.

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[info]takami826
2005-10-11 10:30 am UTC (link)
If I can't see it, I don't care, obviously. BUT when people go whipping out their tits, having misfires and leaking all over, that's a very LOOK AT ME LOOK WHAT I CAN DO and I refuse to put up with that. It's as healthy and natural as shitting or pissing your pants and parading around as proud as can be.

And yes, I've been in a restaurant situation where a MOO had to just HAD TO feed and sprayed milk. Worse, she got HIGHLY taken aback when someone got annoyed and made a comment. Come on now. There is NO need for that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]ferlingmule, 2005-10-11 11:26 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]coanteen
2005-10-11 03:04 pm UTC (link)
i agree with the second bill. the tests for birth defects aren't perfect (no test is; there are always false positives and false negatives), and even those that are available only test for the most common abnormalities. hell, ultrasound can't even determine the fetus' sex with 100% accuracy, do they think it will show every possibly defect?

not to mention that the more invasive tests like amniocentesis actually carry the risk of abortion.

breeding carries risks. modern medicine can greatly reduce them, but it can't guarantee a perfectly healthy baby. parents who think otherwise should be shot hit repeatedly with a clue-by-four and then shot.

(Reply to this)

Lightening up a bit...
[info]rubyfire
2005-10-11 03:55 pm UTC (link)
How much you wanna bet that the people who supported the first bill also flip out any time there's a nipple on TV?

If people wanna breastfeed in public, good for them. But it seems awfully stupid to arrest any other women who walks around topless.

That would make the world better place. Espcially when it's really humid out.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Lightening up a bit...
[info]sil_no_kozi
2005-10-11 04:01 pm UTC (link)
Espcially when it's really humid out.

Freaking yes.

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[info]ka_crow
2005-10-11 04:04 pm UTC (link)
I just want to state that while I agree that the "harassment" law is stupid, I am devoutly CF -- my sister has wisely named somebody else as guardian of her son in the event that both she and my BIL are killed in a freak accident -- and I also don't give a flying shit about public breastfeeding. At least then something is stuffed in the kid's mouth to keep it from being able to scream.

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[info]jaila
2005-10-11 04:41 pm UTC (link)
*moving past the flame-fest*

I feel the breastfeeding law is complete bullshit because of one reason:

If I can bear mine in public, you can't bear yours.

It's bullshit that a man can trot around shirtless and be okay, but in order for a women to do so, she has to have a kid dangling off of her chest. There are ways to feed your brat from the breast without exposure. There are nursing shirts and nursing blankets that have been used by mothers for years. I'm going to make the assumption that very few people in this group would argue against their use. I sure wouldn't.

Cover it up or use a pump and bottle. And while you're at it, speak up about having the decency laws applied equally to both genders.

p.s. I don't really think an infant would give a fuck if it's eating in a bathroom, or in a kitchen, or with a light blankie over its head.

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[info]sima_zhongda
2005-10-11 09:18 pm UTC (link)
1) I am pro-breastfeeding. I am anti-flaunt-your-tits, unless I can do it too with equal standing. It's manners. I can sneeze without covering my mouth; I can fart, I can belch. I don't (in public) because it's rude. There are excellent ways to discreetly breastfeed an infant. Pump your milk at home. If that isn't an option, bring a blanket along. Or do some sort of combination of the two. I've seen some mothers juggle so much stuff at once while holding a kid that it puts my dexterity to shame. Surely it can't be that difficult to add "cover breast with blanket" to the repertoire?

2)I don't understand the "Would you eat in a bathroom?" argument. Yes, I probably would. I don't see anything wrong with sitting down, closing the door, Purell-ing my hands, and eating a sandwich. It's not like mothers are rubbing their breasts on all surfaces before handing them over to the kids, unless there's some freaky way to shut a stall door with the human breast. If there is, please let me know- it sounds like an awesome party trick, at least until I have my double mastectomy.

All that aside, that law is seriously fucked. Your breasts were made for feeding children? Mine weren't made to be stuffed into weird-looking underwear. The irony I see is that most of these nutjob lactivists are the same people who scream and carry on about public indecency, yet insist on validating their whatever (womanhood? ability to procreate? ability to lactate?) by flaunting themselves about. Please, learn some decency and common respect.

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[info]veronica_rich
2005-10-12 02:38 am UTC (link)
I'll tell you what offends me about this, exactly. It's taken me a while to understand it enough to verbalize it, but I think I know EXACTLY what gets under my skin and how to state it:

Legislators are happy and ready to pass laws that allow breastfeeding in public as a woman's *right* to do unmolested or unchallenged, almost without question, because there's a live baby involved. But legislators (and I admit, I don't know if it's the same ones, but I would think there are some in common) are also jumping on the bandwagon to deny women LEGALLY PRESCRIBED birth control and the right to choose an abortion over pregnancy, because they involve, respectively, no fetus and dead fetuses (fetii?).

I guess my gut repsonse is along the lines of You mean these people are in positions of power and have nothing better to do than debate/pass laws about THIS?. My considered response is My choice to purge a growing parasite from my body, that I do not want, should trump a lactating woman's right to feed her baby in public. That is, if there's a contest between the two.

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[info]sil_no_kozi
2005-10-12 03:20 am UTC (link)
You are so absolutely, utterly right I very well think I'd like to re-post your comment as an entirely new post and tell the breeder-pleasers and boob-haters to SHUT THE FUCK UP and concern themselves with what is IMPORTANT, i.e. what you've stated.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]veronica_rich, 2005-10-12 03:59 am UTC (Expand)

[info]desert_rn
2005-10-12 05:04 am UTC (link)
Fuck you and your equally assholish fuckmate.

Comparing an obese person to a titnazi is not precisely fair; despite what you sizist fucktards believe, obesity is not always a choice. Last I checked, popping a sprog is completely an option. And my sister breastfed. In public. And felt no compulsion to whip it out in full view while braying, "Its my riiiight! I'm A Mooooooooother!" THAT is what is objectionable about this bill- If you want to nurse your little crotchdropping, GO FOR IT- but cover it up. There is no reason that YOUR CHOICE should be legislated as if it were a right.

That's just entitlement bullshit.

(Reply to this)


[info]laturner
2005-10-12 09:47 am UTC (link)
I was at lunch with my cousin and his family, including his breastfeeding wife. I didn't even notice she was breastfeeding until she switched breasts, and even then she did it quietly and quickly. I glanced away, and in about five seconds she was done and covered up again.

It can be done. I think comparing it to taking a crap is a bit severe, but it's certainly comparable to farting. Would you sit in a restaurant and let 'er rip and pollute with noise and smell? Then don't breastfeed and pollute with sight and sound. There are subtle ways to breastfeed.

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