bunnyowners: Bonding? u

Chai & Kairi (

chaikai) wrote in

bunnyowners,
@ 2004-11-08 21:15:00

Current mood:

stressed

Bonding? u_u
I just got a new bunny, Riku, a nice little guy, lop bunny. Kairi, my dutch darling, is 1 year old now, and this guy is oh, 5 to 8 months...and so I put him in the bathroom, and I waited a while and then put Kairi in there with him...and...it didn't go well, I think.

I expected sniffing and possibly him mounting her, but, it was utter chaos. They sniffed, chased, SHE mounted HIM and BIT him! Then he was biting her too, and then he was mounting her, and it was all a big craziness.

Anyway, yeah, please don't tell me to get him or her (or both) spayed/neutered/whatever because I'm not going to, and I have my reasons for that. But, if you have any other advice to offer, I'm all ears.

PS-They really are both sweethearts...well, I KNOW Kairi is, and from the little I've seen of Riku, so is he.

-Chai

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ex_icepriest846
2004-11-08 07:57 pm UTC (link)

You're, uh, expecting to put two unneutered rabbits together and have them be best buddies?

Um, I'd like to offer advice, but really there isn't much you can do. Chances are that they will be friends for a few minutes someday, have bunny-sex, and then fight viciously again (I've heard of many female rabbits being cranky around male rabbits when they are pregnant).

So, uh, good luck.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Thanks chaikai 2004-11-08 08:29 pm UTC (link)
	They seem to be a bit milder now, but who knows. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	magicteetango 2004-11-08 08:25 pm UTC (link)
	I'm assuming you're breeding them due to the risks you are taking. The issue is hormones. Really, they pretty much will not get along to be cagemates. Female rabbits rarely get along with female rabbits that are unspayed, so your little one will need to be solitary pretty much. Keep both of them seperate, and spend lots of time with each. -Ash (Reply to this) (Thread)

Risks?

chaikai
2004-11-08 08:33 pm UTC (link)

I'm not risking anything really. I want to be a dutch rabbit breeder, someday...so to breed these two would be a learning process for me, so that later I can look into seriously breeding, for show. (I know better than to breed a lop with a dutch and expect to show the babies, of course). And this really isn't my main reason for not getting them fixed, actually. I have two other reasons...

Oh yeah, they have seperate cages. ^-^;; Definately. I just with they wouldn't bite the hell out of each other...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Risks? -

jaanka, 2004-11-08 08:48 pm UTC

Re: Risks? -

chaikai, 2004-11-08 08:51 pm UTC

(no subject) -

rockthemeepit, 2004-11-09 03:59 pm UTC

(no subject) -

blackthorn45, 2004-11-09 04:21 pm UTC

	casuallycrumble 2004-11-08 08:39 pm UTC (link)
	Just curious, what are your other reasons for not getting them fixed? (Reply to this) (Thread)

Reasons

chaikai
2004-11-08 08:45 pm UTC (link)

Heh...It's a bit embarrasing, actually, hence why I didn't mention it.

1. I'm broke. Seriously. I spent all my money...on a bunny. And it'd take me forever to save up that much, considering my lack of having a job.

2. I could never stand having animals operated on/fixed. It REALLY gives me butterflies, nausea, and all kinds of stuff. I remember when they fixed my puppy a long time ago. But the vet was experienced with dogs, and it was more my dad's than mine. I love my bunnies even more and I doubt I could handle having them cut...you know, especially since all we have are vets that do cats/dogs, but not lagomorphs any. No offense to the vets or anything, but...I don't trust them. o__o Not at all, actually. Eh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Reasons -

jaanka, 2004-11-08 08:49 pm UTC

Re: Reasons -

geezluweez, 2004-11-08 09:49 pm UTC

Re: Reasons -

chaikai, 2004-11-08 10:02 pm UTC

Re: Reasons -

sushiq, 2004-11-09 05:44 am UTC

Re: Reasons -

davidazus, 2004-11-09 11:33 am UTC

Okay

chaikai
2004-11-08 08:58 pm UTC (link)

Now people, I know this is a very contreversial issue that has been argued here before, and if you don't mind, I'd like to avoid getting into one right now. I mind my own business and respect the opinions and views of others. And I refuse to argue about it with those that will not even so much as respect my specific request NOT to bring up this matter. If you don't mind.

Now, I will greatly appreciate any other bonding techniques anyone has to offer. Thanks.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Okay jaanka 2004-11-08 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	being unneutered they will most likely not bond. Their hormones will get in the way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Okay -

kaonamai, 2004-11-09 05:51 am UTC

casuallycrumble
2004-11-08 09:11 pm UTC (link)

Sorry to say, but there really isn't any decent solution to bonding them without getting them fixed.. which.. you don't want. There's um, a lot of issues here that would cause conflicts in this community. I know you don't want to be lectured, but if you're broke, why do you have rabbits? To take care of the 2 that I have has cost me thousands of dollars, and that didn't even include their neuters.. the comment you said about not taking risks is a whole other thing which I won't even get started on.. it just rather saddens me to see things happen this way, with so many rabbits rotting in shelters and pounds already.

The only thing that would work with them is time, but their hormones will get in the way for the most part.

(Reply to this)

	Alright chaikai 2004-11-08 09:21 pm UTC (link)
	I'm hearing a lot about hormones. Yeah. So, I suppose watching them closely and seperating them when they fight will work. Anyway, thank you all very much ^-^ The advice was very helpful. Feel free to continue to post, or whatnot, though I have washing to be done now. -mutter- u_u; -Chai (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Alright

rockthemeepit
2004-11-09 04:04 pm UTC (link)

My two Netherland Dwarves are both neutered, but still fight terribly. So even if you get both your bunnies fixed, it may not work. What I've done with my Dwarves is made them special cages (outside, all my bunnies, besides one, are outside bunnies) and I have chicken wire seperating their cages so they can still bond and be brothers.

I try to put them back together from time to time, but they still fight.

You can try placing your rabbits' cages together so they might bond better, but you'll have trouble with spraying--on both rabbits. Also, I'd watch them the first few hours, so they don't try to fight through the wires and hurt themselves.

Good luck. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	casuallycrumble 2004-11-08 09:26 pm UTC (link)
	I thought the needs of rabbits should be above us, but I guess not. [I love how what we say is being taken into consideration, don't you? <3] (Reply to this) (Thread)

I would, really...

chaikai
2004-11-08 09:34 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry if I seem like I'm ignoring parts/whole comments. Really. But I'm truly not the type of person that argues, I don't want to argue with you (or anyone), and I won't. I understand why you said what you did, I've heard these things before. I respect them, and think they are generally good pieces of advice, though perhaps a bit dramatic. Therefore, I apologize if I seem to be ignoring things, but I'm doing it for good reasons.

-listens to the hum of the washer- Must...not...fall...asleep...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

thesara
2004-11-08 09:30 pm UTC (link)

Yeah good luck with that...it won't happen let me tell you. They can get along great but as soon as one mounts the other and the other isn't having it there will be a brawl and if you think they are bonded great and you leave them alone unattended there will be a fight. My buns get along amazingly well considering Charlie (female) is spayed and Oreo (male is not..yet he had an infection and I'm waiting a couple weeks to make sure he is clear before he goes to get his op) and they run and play and cuddle. But Oreo persistently mounts Charlie and she lets it go but once she's annoyed she will go at him so they are never left alone together or in the same cage. It's a problem that they will have until Oreo is neutered and doesn't get the urges to mate. I'm just sorry to say sure you can breed these buns but they really won't do well as a bonded pair. They just might get in a fight one time and it could be the last time. Their fighting doesn't end until well...one is considerable hurt or dead.

I'd also suggest if your going to be breeding these buns you have separate cages because once your female has her liter and that male is in the cage he's going to try to get her pregnanat again instantly and that's not very healthy for her because she's still recovering.

Also the fact that your broke is also kind of horrible that you went and bought another rabbit. Honestly what happens if one gets an infection? How are you going to pay for the vet? Your female since you don't want to get her spayed what happens when there are cancers and other diseases found(ovarian, uterine, and mammarian for females and testicular disease, abscesses, haematomas and cancer for males)? How are you going to treat that? I'm not saying it is going to happen to your buns but it still could. I think it's irresponsible of you to do this when it seems like you just assume you know so much about it when you evidently do not. Rabbits are cute and fluffy but they are also living beings that need someone that can financially, medically, and emotionally assist them. Not just breed them. I think many at this community will agree with me. Granted I'm not an expert but you wanted peoples advice so here you go.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	casuallycrumble 2004-11-08 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	I could read this ten times over, thank you for posting <3 (Reply to this) (Parent)

sacredessence
2004-11-08 09:48 pm UTC (link)

I have a lot of bunnies. I have heard that 2 unneutered males will do nothing but fight and will never bong, but it simply isn't true. How do I know this? Because I have 2 bonded un-neutered male rabbits that couldn't stand to be away from each other when playtime was done, so they now share a cage. They were both rescue's, one was 6 mos and the other 2 years when they met. I didn't even TRY to put them together. They did it on their own. When one was out to play he'd vist the other through te cage and visa versa. After a month of this I thought "Hey, maybe they want to play together". So, with broom in hand to break up any fighting I let them out together. They NEVER fought, ever. After a couple weeks of this I let them share a pen overnight since they would nap together in one cage or the other while out durring the day. They are happy, healthy and fine. However, I have 2 other males that really canot be around any other males. Tried and true. Now, I have also heard that unaltered females don't like each other generally eaither, but I have 2 does sharing a cage. I have one doe that is all alone because she really doesn't like the other does, but those 2 are attached at the hip. Most of my bunnies are on my webpage if you want to see them.

Good luck with bonding. The rabbits pretty much decide regardless of what us people want or expect.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	sacredessence 2004-11-08 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	also, a note on spaying. Females unaltered do TEND to get uterine cancer by age 2 or 3. Spayed females will TEND to survive 8-10 years. So that's a good reason to spay unless you are going to breed them. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Thanks -

chaikai, 2004-11-08 10:10 pm UTC

Re: Thanks -

blackthorn45, 2004-11-09 11:07 am UTC

pocky_and_gene
2004-11-08 10:38 pm UTC (link)

Giving them away is a terrible idea. People use cheap (or free) rabbits as snake food. "Seeing how things play out" is not a plan. We're talking about preventing cancer, and you're saying you'll see how things go. Thousands of rabbits are being put to sleep in shelters and you want to breed for a "learning experience." And your own personal journal talks about the bunnies having to live outside. Who gets a pet that they are unable to care for, let alone two? Who gets pets without researching the best possible care for them?

(Reply to this)

	daitheflu 2004-11-09 01:24 am UTC (link)
	also, not to jump all over you, but rabbits breed soooooooo quickly. with two unaltered pets hanging out together, you could have 10 litters a year! that is soooo many bunnies to place. please be careful! i understand your financial concerns, but invest (WISELY) in separate cages if nothing else. (Reply to this)

Blah.

chaikai
2004-11-09 04:33 am UTC (link)

You know what? PLEASE stop talking about it. I'm not stupid, I jhave researched rabbits (specifically dutch) for at least 4 years now, I have owned rabbits ALL my life. I WILL do what I want to do, but I thank you all for your advice, and I'm sorry you all must act like children in this matter. Know that I can LISTEN to any advice, but I DONT have to take it. I understand you think I'm irresponsible and whatnot, but I took the time to read all your critisism and reply to you when I could with a decent explanation, and a kind request to END the discussion. So, again, I'm sorry I sound a bit cold toward you guys, but your attitudes about me could definately improve, for I have done nothing wrong. Right and wrong here is obviously the issue and I am no ignorant person, what you concieve to be right is not exactly identicle to my idea, but doesn't mean you go into an entry and bark someone out. I'm sure a lot of you ARE grown adults. And of course your opinions matter to me, they DO matter and I DO want the best for my rabbits and I promise I'm going to do the best I can for them. I'm not some ten year old that saw a cute bunny and decided to buy it, without any knowledge.

Anyway, I really am sorry, I hate lecturing and such, but just as you all have your minds made up of your beliefs, as do I. You all will not change, I know, but please respect that I, just like you, will not change in my opinion. You may or may not take this to heart, that's up to you; I know how it is not to want to listen to people that may have a different point of view on things, because I'm like that too. Sometimes we just have to accept the differences of others and move on. You cannot hate someone because there's one thing you don't agree on. If everyone did this, no one would have friends, would they?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

thank_you
2004-11-09 05:35 am UTC (link)

I appreciate differing opinions, but please don't get mad, they're only trying to offer you the best advice. I don't believe anybody here was trying to attack you personally nor that they were being childish.

That said, I also believe it would be a good idea to alter your bunnies. I could get all long and drawn out as to my reasons why I think this is, but I know I can't persuade you, and if you think you've done the research, then hey...go for it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Blah. -

kaonamai, 2004-11-09 05:54 am UTC

Re: Blah. -

nefermoon, 2004-11-09 07:31 am UTC

Re: Blah. -

blackthorn45, 2004-11-09 10:55 am UTC

Re: Blah. -

stars_that_fall, 2004-11-09 06:23 pm UTC

Re: Blah. -

oxbandagesxo, 2004-11-11 05:48 pm UTC

skirril
2004-11-09 06:03 am UTC (link)

You know what? Please actually listen to some of these people. YOU are acting like a child in this matter.

You are being completely irresponsible, you were being irresponsible when you bought a second bun meaning you had no money for vet care for the first.
What happens if one of them falls ill now? It'll just die because you wanted to breed to get some mix breed babies.
What are you going to learn from a breeding? Er, they hump, she gets fatter and more aggressive, she has babies, they suckle and then are seperated from their mum. How is that really going to help you as a breeder? Read about genetics, THAT would help you as a breeder, if you already have done then just WAIT until you have the money to help the breed! Because breeding CAN be good, you can help the health and longitivity of buns, but what you're going to do now is of no use at all, it's just for fun isn't it?
And are those babies going to a petstore? Because they might well end up as snakefood if they do, perhaps you know they won't, but you haven't indicated you do.
If you were keeping the babies I wouldn't be so angry, but you're just getting rid of them, taking homes that rescued buns could have had, or letting them be snakefood (and being eaten alive is NOT humane).
And what if your girl bun has a difficult pregnancy? What if she needs vet care because YOU made her pregnant, and what if she dies because YOU cannot afford it?

You are being completely irresponsible and you are being completely unfair to your pets.

And actually intelligent people DO change their opinions, it's called LEARNING.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	blackthorn45 2004-11-09 11:08 am UTC (link)
	Hear, hear! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

davidazus, 2004-11-09 12:26 pm UTC

(no subject) -

ex_icepriest846, 2004-11-09 12:33 pm UTC

	somnolence 2004-11-09 09:03 am UTC (link)
	Did you even have enough money to take them for check ups at a vet after you bought them to make sure that you bought healthy rabbits? (Reply to this)

	tamtar 2004-11-09 10:11 am UTC (link)
	i really can't imagine what you were expecting people to say when you made this post... i can only hope that you eventually come to your senses and do what is best for these bunnies. (Reply to this)

blackthorn45
2004-11-09 10:51 am UTC (link)

Wow.. just, wow.

I'm not risking anything really. I want to be a dutch rabbit breeder, someday...so to breed these two would be a learning process for me, so that later I can look into seriously breeding, for show.

Were you aware that rabbits over a year old can have serious complications from a first litter? And you don't even have the money to pay for them to be fixed, what are you going to do if they get sick, or the mother has problems delivering, or the babies need vet care?

Do you have any idea how many rabbits get put down in shelters because of people who want the "learning experience" of having a litter? There is a huge overpopulation problem with rabbits, and you are breeding yet more mixed breed rabbits to contribute to it. THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED MORE LOP/DUTCH MIXED BREED RABBITS. Why don't you look into serious breeding *first*, by contacting a reputable breeder, by reading and researching, not just breeding your rabbits together without a thought for the consequences?

The two are not going to bond. They are going to mate, and fight, and mate, and fight. That's how unaltered rabbits work. If you don't get them fixed, she will have litter after litter after litter. Rabbits can get pregnant the same day they have birth. You do realize that will seriously overstress her and eventually likely kill her? Would you like to have kids one after another until it kills you?

Or the fact that 80% of unspayed females get uterine cancer and die. That unspayed females live about 5-6 years while spayed live over 10 years on average. I guess in all your research that never came into your head. But you LOVE your rabbit SO MUCH.. and you've done SO MUCH RESEARCH.. yeah, right. I don't believe it one second, because if you had, you wouldn't be doing something so incredibly stupid.

I know full well that posting in such a way does no good, but I can't help but be outraged and horrified that you are being so irresponsible with your rabbits. I work at humane society, and see hundreds of rabbits come in every year because of people like you.

I hope to God you come to your senses and realize what you're doing is utterly reprehensible and irresponsible to the extreme.

(Reply to this)

	blackthorn45 2004-11-09 11:01 am UTC (link)
	I see you're from Texas. Go to petfinder.com and plug in your location, searching for rabbits. I get 67 hits of rabbits needing homes. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	blackthorn45 2004-11-09 11:02 am UTC (link)
	Not to mention almost all shelters have rabbits, too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ex_icepriest846
2004-11-09 11:06 am UTC (link)

What did you honestly expect? You start a fight, and then get pissy. If all the research you’ve done shows that it cannot be done, it cannot be done.

You say you worked closely with a breeder. So then what did the breeder say about bonding a male and female bunny?

I have never heard of a breeder doing such a thing, or endorsing it. I also talked for a long time with the breeders of both Thumpy (he was a dutch) and my Teddy. Thumpy’s breeder said no rabbits should be together ever (she didn’t believe in neutering- as it was dangerous at the time). Teddy’s breeder said that unneutered same sex pairs can get along IF THEY DECIDE THEY LIKE EACH OTHER, which is not something that can be controlled for from our end. She also suggested neutering all pet bunnies.

Thumpy was never neutered. I have no problems with unneutered pet bunnies. Thumpy was a joy, and really added something special to our lives for all 8 years of his life, despite his hormones. I also worry about vets who don’t have the knowledge of bunnies operating on them. So if you don’t care about hormonal issues, that’s fine. Your bunnies can be fine without it. I endorse your decision.

But unaltered bunnies of opposite sexes cannot be bonded. The constant litters will drive the female to an early death. Add to that that pregnant females can be really bitchy when males try to hump them. They will fight- A LOT.

So, if your goal is for them to live together and be buddies, get them fixed. Get a credit card if you have to in order to get it done. Maybe try saving a little. Some vets even will work around extended payment plans. There are lists out here on the internet of vets that work regularly with rabbits. There are also lists of shelters, and by calling them you can find out who neuters their bunnies. Shelter vets who see rabbits regularly are great resources because they gain so much experience this way.

If your goal is to breed, how about breeding responsibly (though I wonder at how you could pull it off since you can’t afford to take care of the two you have, but that’s a sidetrack.) That means don’t mix breeds! You can do your “experimenting” with two well bred, purebred, healthy rabbits.

Breeding does not require experimenting. It requires that you take two animals that are the best specimens possible of their breed, temperament, and health… and let them go at it. It requires that you put the effort into taking the best possible care of all of your animals, and in finding the babies homes. Enough people have bred rabbits, that you can get all the experience tips you could possibly need straight from them rather than “experimenting.” So if that’s what you want… get another job to fund your new hobby, and trade in your lop for the best dutch buck you can possibly get your hands on. Check for temperament and conformation… and have a vet make sure he and your Kairi are in great health.

Responsible breeding is not a process of having lots of baby animals running around. It is a quest to create the best animal ever… the best example of the breed. Throwing two bunnies in a cage together to “see what happens” doesn’t quite fit this bill. Plus, we all can tell you what happens without you even trying it yourself! You’ll get a whole litter of little mutt-bunnies! Surprise!

Oh- and if you don’t like internet drama, do your research before asking us to agree with your dumb decisions.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	blackthorn45 2004-11-09 11:10 am UTC (link)
	Well said! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

stars_that_fall, 2004-11-09 06:30 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

keeping the bunnies outside -

kaonamai, 2004-11-09 12:09 pm UTC

jnlldxn
2004-11-09 11:56 am UTC (link)

Chia. You know I am on your friends list, why didnt you just ask me where to get a rabbit to match your dutch, and how to go about doing it? Most show breeders start out from scratch with purebred animals of the same breed. Alot of them that are young like you educate themselves early by starting off with something like 4-h. Or they attend many shows with other breeders and learn how to go about doing things. They just dont throw two animals in together. Thats just ignorant. And cross breeding should never be done unless its done by someone who has experience, who is working on either A) trying to save a breed, or B) working with many other breeders at a time on developing a new breed or variety.

You said your buck has already mounted her. Guess what. She probably pregnant. Your gonna have a bunch of lop dutch running around. Breeding a lop eared rabbit, to a strait eared one can also bring on ear problems by doing a cross like that. not to mention that most lop breeds are bigger then dutch. So she may have pregnancy complications as well.

That breeder sounds no better then a miller. Id find someone else to get your info from. In fact dont breed at all till you have your own place where you can afford purebred show quality rabbits.

I'm trying to be mean or anything. Im laying it to you strait. Thsi is the reason why breeders like myself have to deal with the breeder/rescuer hate thing. People that do what you did is the reason why there is conflict between the two. Rescuers see the expirements end up at their shleters EVERY DAY! And good breeders have to put up with rescuers hating them because some dumbass decided to 'expiriment with their rabbits!' And that cross breeding ends up at the shelter!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	True chaikai 2004-11-09 07:21 pm UTC (link)
	That's true. Do you have any messanger service? I need someone that won't chew me out to talk to about this specifically in greater detail. The last thing I'd want to do is shame the breeders that I look up to. (Reply to this) (Parent)

kaonamai
2004-11-09 12:06 pm UTC (link)

Austin Area
Dr. Todd Riggan
White Rock Veterinary Hospital
Three Points Plaza
2700 W. Pecan St. Suite 315
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512/670-5400
Recommended by: Theresa Ransom-Nelson, House Rabbit Resource Network
Notes: Dr. Riggan sees all of the foster rabbits from the House
Rabbit Resource Network in Austin.

Dr. Tracy Karlinger-Smith
Chase Memorial Veterinary Hospital
Austin, TX
512/554-4663
Available Tues., Wed. and Thur. only
Recommended by: Jan Langer, House Rabbit Resource Network
Notes: Dr. Karlinger is the diagnostician, and Dr. Biehle is an excellent
surgeon who spays and neuters many of HRRN's foster rabbits.

Dallas/Fort Worth Area
Dr. Marc Cattoor
South Flower Mound Animal Hospital
1900 Long Prarie Road, Suite 100
Flower Mound, Texas 75028
972/724-7297
Recommended by Sarita Rossi,
sarita@waymark.net

Dr. Amanda Gardner
Country Club Animal Hospital
2250 Matlock Road
Mansfield, Texas
817/477-4143
Recommended by Lisa Hafer,
lisa@hafer.com

Dr. Effie Giannopoulos
CityVet
2735 Oak Lawn Avenue
Dallas, Texas
214/219-2838
Recommended by Sarita Rossi
sarita@waymark.net

Dr. Loretta Patenburg
Dr. Sharon Hollars
Summertree Animal Clinic
12300 Inwood Road, Suite 102
Dallas, Texas
972/387-4168
Recommended by Amey Isaacks
rabbit4me@yahoo.com

Dr. Ahumada
A&B Animal Clinic
9072 Garland Road
Dallas, Texas
214/328-7055
Spays and Neuters only
Recommended by Amey Isaacks
rabbit4me@yahoo.com

Dr. DeeDee Wilkins
Stonebriar Vet Clinic
5720 Town & Country Blvd.
Frisco, Texas
972/712-8387
Recommended by Barbara Yule, North Texas Rabbit Sanctuary
ntrsbarb@aol.com

Dr. Carol Eddy
The Corinth Vet Clinic
4451 FM 2181, Suite 105
Corinth, Texas
940/497-5383
Recommended by Barbara Yule, North Texas Rabbit Sanctuary
ntrsbarb@aol.com

Houston Area: http://www.bunnybuddies.org/bb.html

(Reply to this)

	one more thought kaonamai 2004-11-09 12:11 pm UTC (link)
	there are so many shelter bunnies..we don't need more :( (Reply to this)

blackthorn45
2004-11-09 02:05 pm UTC (link)

This is posted on behalf of

djkittn, who can't post here because he/she is not a member.

"You posted this in a community and are now upset because people keep giving you the same (and best!) advice, and it's advice you don't want to hear. Why not actually heed the advice that is being given to you?

What you're doing is horribly irresponsible, and truth be told, completely aggravating.

I've got a learning experience for you. Go work at a shelter. Then scramble to find room when someone brings in just *one more animal* that you can't house but are forced to take. Then find time in your busy day taking care of these animals to come back and help someone like me- who has had to euthanize more animals than you could imagine- and you can hold out the bunny's leg for me while I shave it down and insert the needle into its vein. I'll even let you push the plunger on the syringe, and you can watch the bunny urinate and defecate on itself, and tremble with fear in its very last moments living on earth.

Because every animal that is born from irresponsible breeding- be it dog, cat, bunny, guinea pig, whatever- is putting more pressure on that plunger. Breeding for anything other than the betterment of the species (and you are not prepared to do that!!) is a death sentence for animals that are in shelters due to no fault of their own.

Listen, just because "spay/neuter them!" is not the answer you want to hear, it is THE answer. You say you've done so much research and talked to a breeder ("breeder" does not mean "expert", it sounds like this person is not a quality breeder), but if you'd gotten the right information (instead of someone blowing smoke up your ass), you'd have known better than bringing an unaltered different species of bun into your home.

If you can't even afford to spay/neuter (it's not that expensive, for Pete's sake!!), have you even been taking care of them? Have they had check ups? What if one gets sick? What if there are problems with birth? What if their fighting (because that's all they're going to do, mate and fight) gets serious and someone gets hurt? Do you plan on taking care of them THEN? What are you going to do with the babies? Find "good homes" for all of them? You'll end up giving out snake food. Let me tell you about those "good homes"- there aren't enough. Just like there aren't enough homes for cats or dogs. No matter what, for every bunny you "create," a bunny dies because there isn't a home for it.

As far as being nervous about putting them through a surgery, please don't put your feelings ahead of their health. The risks are too great for an unspayed/unneutered bunny/cat/dog! You ARE being selfish!! You have absolutely no right to treat them like experiments and cause their death or the death of other animals.

Don't get mad at the people here, they are looking out for your RABBITS, something you should have done already. It's not too late to correct this mistake, keep the buns separated and get them fixed."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	stars_that_fall 2004-11-09 06:36 pm UTC (link)
	wow, there is just one good comment posted after another... (Reply to this) (Parent)

magicteetango
2004-11-09 03:20 pm UTC (link)

I used to work at a pet store, and I will speak with you commercially.

In the area of rabbits who are bred for pets, although I sold purebred Hotots almost exclusively (and some Mini Rexes, and someone's accidental litter) once I got my management position, most of the Dutch/Lop mixes I have seen are unsightly (not offending anyone, I adore all animals but I'm speaking commercially) in comparison to those that are purebreds. Sell/neuter your male or bring him back to that breeder ASAP. While one cannot tell the quality of a baby sometimes, from looking at him he seems small for a baby and he doesn't seem like breeding material. He is cute, but if you want to email me privately at ashleyfrost@excite.com, I could explain more.

Females can have lots of complications from their litters. Especially a maiden with a new breeder, and not even a baby of her own breed/size range. This will be difficult. Breeding rabbits is quite expensive.

The person that wants your babies is either a snake or meat breeder. All the bunnies we DIDN'T sell when selling bunnies who are unpapered did go back to the company. And guess what? They were snake food unless someone loved them and took them in (as I did with my Sunday). I did my best to avoid this happening, but I did not work every day and it did happen.

NEVER 'give' away a rabbit (what sort of breeder just gives babies away for free? Come on. I hate to say the word profit... but yeah.). These babies will come back to bite you in the ass, either through guilt or you not being able to feed them and more and more issues.

She will most likely get cancer: IF HER REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS REMAIN UNUSED. This may encourage you to breed once, however, this is not my idea. A good Dutch as you know, since you did so much research, is hard to breed. I'm sure you've seen the poorly bred ones (which from SELLING rabbits, I can see a mile away) and the shape of their face. Your rabbits will have the wrong ears, the COMPLETELY wrong body shape, and have little to no sheen to their coats, and those poor faces. If you were breeding two dwarfs, I still do not approve, however at the very least they'd be close to the appropriate weight, and bodytype.

There are no solid Dutches. Dilute dutches are not desirable either to most people. A Dutch is usually a black and white banded rabbit, compact body, and perfect ears. Amazing sheen, I love Dutch rabbits. I find them to have the best temperament, and I wanted to eventually sell only them. AMAZING rabbits.

Now you did your breed research, so do some research on keeping pets. This is what your rabbits are: Pets.

Sheds are hot, and drafty in the winter. No sunlight, and high escape chances. Breeders build their own barns, or finish their garages at the very least.

I did not show bunnies, but did plenty of research myself. One or the other must get spayed or neutered, go, or they must be kept seperate at all times.

Ashley

(Reply to this)

whenmostiwink
2004-11-09 07:03 pm UTC (link)

Don't stick your hand in the fire, and then complain when you get burned.

We all love our rabbits. In our dealings with them, we put their best interests first, and many of us believe very strongly that it is absolutely not okay to contribute to rabbit overpopulation. Next time, before you make such a choice, try visiting a rabbit rescue shelter. See all of the homeless rabbits. Then come back here and get pissed at us for criticizing your irresponsibility.

And next time, before you spout your "concerns" about having a rabbit spayed, you try spending a night holding your rabbit as she dies of uterine cancer at age 3 years, because her previous owners were too irresponsible to have her spayed. You listen to her scream as she convulses, and then finally lays still, eyes clouded over. You put her in a shoebox with all her favorite toys and bury her in the woods in the pouring rain. You cry over her poor little body until your eyes swell up and you can't cry anymore. All because some jerk was too lazy to take her in for a simple surgical procedure.

Then come complaining about how childish WE all are. Remember, just because you've done research on the internet or in a book doesn't mean you have any idea what you're talking about.

(Reply to this)

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