Greta Garbo ([info]strawbryfields) wrote in [info]buddhists,
@ 2004-11-18 21:59:00
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Attention Vegetarians/Vegans
Hi my vegetarian/vegan friends. I understand that you are against violence. However, I believe that plants as well have souls. All life is connected and you can't get away from it. What's the difference (if any) of eating plants instead of animals?

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[info]caraccident
2004-11-18 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I'm not buddhist, so maybe this doesn't help, but I am vegan. I don't believe that plants have souls (or humans or animals or anything, really). But to me the difference is that a plant can't feel pain. A plant doesn't have the capacity to be aware of what is happening to it.

If someone can't eat plants or animals, what can they eat?

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i'll leave the judgement up to you
[info]strawbryfields
2004-11-18 07:16 pm UTC (link)
A plant was hooked up to an electroencephlogram (I think that was the device). A person next to the plant thought about watering the plant. The plant had positive electric impulses. Then, the person thought about burning it. The plant had negative electrical impulses.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]dharmapunk, 2004-11-18 07:44 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]mystrymeat86, 2004-11-18 07:54 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]pixiedash, 2004-11-18 09:32 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]strawbryfields, 2004-11-18 10:11 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]arland2012, 2004-11-19 05:46 am UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]mystrymeat86, 2004-11-18 07:56 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]palabrasverdad, 2004-11-18 08:54 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]mindfulness, 2004-11-18 09:15 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]mystrymeat86, 2004-11-18 09:21 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]mindfulness, 2004-11-18 09:32 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]palabrasverdad, 2004-11-18 09:50 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]caraccident, 2004-11-18 08:29 pm UTC
Re: i'll leave the judgement up to you - [info]slimeypete, 2004-11-19 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glamwhorebunni, 2004-11-18 07:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strawbryfields, 2004-11-18 07:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]caraccident, 2004-11-18 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]glamwhorebunni, 2004-11-19 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]caraccident, 2004-11-19 08:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]felonies, 2004-11-18 10:38 pm UTC

[info]beginnermind
2004-11-18 07:09 pm UTC (link)
I'm not a veggie. But the difference is that when you're eating a plant, you're eating a plant; eating an animal, you're eating an animal. I don't believe either one of them has a soul, because "belief" seems pretty darn irrelevant to me. For me, that is.

I'm gonna order pizza, pizza-soul or no. Laters.

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[info]mystrymeat86
2004-11-18 07:10 pm UTC (link)
I am simply more comfortable with it. I don't know exactly why. But I do share your view that killing a plant is also killing a living creature.
Sometime you don't have to kill a plant to eat its fruit though. Thats just a rationalization...
But honestly, I don't know the difference, and I guess thats why it is a choice left to each in one's own practice.

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[info]kushiel26
2004-11-18 07:16 pm UTC (link)
No such thing has a soul. And we aren't all vegan or vegetarian here ;)

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[info]dharmapunk
2004-11-18 07:37 pm UTC (link)
I don't believe in souls, so that concept is irrelevent to my vegetarianism. Also somewhat unrelated to my own vegetarianism, plants don't have a central nervous system, they don't feel pain or think, (not that all animals have a system of "though" per se). What's the difference between eating an animal and eating a plant? Nothing really, life and death only exist codependently, you're killing something, but if you want to argue Buddhist semantics, you could say that killing plants doesn't cause the plant to "suffer," but it does the animal.

Then again, if you believe plants have souls, then that argument doesn't work, I guess. You could argue that certain plants, specifically fruits, were meant to be eaten for the purpose of seeding. We could argue a lot.

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[info]mindfulness
2004-11-18 07:37 pm UTC (link)
When I've been vegan I've done it for health reasons (meat made me sick and increases disease risks) and for the environmental benefits (meat production is far more wasteful of resources and polluting than plant production).

I am mostly vegan now, hehe, and only wish to eat animals that have not had a cruel life such as battery hens or feedlot beef do. The fish I eat live wild lives which I consider more peaceful.

I also eat organic vegetables and perhaps they have a more peaceful life than ones poisoned with chemicals.

Souls never entered into the equation. All life is sacred to me, but I have to eat. If I were a plant and could make my fuel from the sun and soil and water and air, what bliss! :-)

Btw, I think the Buddhist idea of eating meat being ok if you don't kill it yourself to be lousy. Meat karma is blood and death and you should not be able to hide from karma.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]strawbryfields
2004-11-18 10:15 pm UTC (link)
you said organic food made you a more peaceful person?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mindfulness, 2004-11-18 10:22 pm UTC

[info]bodhicide
2004-11-18 07:45 pm UTC (link)
I actually have a somewhat related question, for those of you who are vegetarians/vegans. Would you eat an animal that had no central nervous system, like a starfish or sea cucumber?

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[info]twisby
2004-11-18 08:07 pm UTC (link)
if they didn't taste bad... but i'm sure there is a reason no one eats them. lol.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mindfulness, 2004-11-18 09:18 pm UTC

[info]c_in_amopyhrain
2004-11-18 08:52 pm UTC (link)
thats how ive always felt.

b

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[info]palabrasverdad
2004-11-18 08:56 pm UTC (link)
I eat meat, plants. Animals eat other animals. Food chain, circle of life, yada yada. I'm not putting down vegans, rock on. Just saying I love meat.

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[info]indriya
2004-11-18 08:59 pm UTC (link)
Plants don't appear to have a consciousness (which I think of as a "soul"). While they have basic electrical/chemical or biological reactions to various types of contact, they don't show any problem-solving abilities, and they don't seem to learn from experience or accumulate knowledge like animals do... Also, eating meat is ecologically and economically more destructive than eating plants, so I see vegetarianism as the path that causes least suffering...

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[info]mindfulness
2004-11-18 09:17 pm UTC (link)
I'm curious as to why you posted this. Apart from information, what was your motivation?

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[info]strawbryfields
2004-11-18 10:19 pm UTC (link)
I didn't mean to offend anyone if I have. I myself have once considered being a vegan, but doubted myself because I see all forms of life connected to one another. Just wanted to hear what other peoples' points of view were.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mindfulness, 2004-11-18 10:25 pm UTC

[info]gravity999
2004-11-18 09:19 pm UTC (link)
she's not eatin' bacon, not
eatin' sausage,
and she won't eat eggs,
not eatin' chicken
not eatin' turkey, she
won't have a steak,
but i just can't help feelin'
sorry
for this poor little lettuce head
you know, i can't stop cryin' cause i
know this broccoli's dead

vegetarian? i'm not a vegetarian,
vegetarian...she's a

poor little cow, little sheep,
little fish
how can I sleep? when carrots
are bleedin'
plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry,
you say "it's not so bad, they're only
vegetables", that's what you said
maybe i'm a murderer, but i'm hungry
and they're better off dead.

save a plant, eat a cow,
i want beef, i want it now!
i'm gonna eat it cause it's red!
i'm gonna eat it cause it's dead!
maybe i should eat it raw let the
blood run down my jaw
i'd eat people if it was legal,
i'd eat people if it was legal!

-reel big fish - say'ten'

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[info]myopicdystopian
2004-11-18 09:21 pm UTC (link)
I am a vegetarian.
I choose not to eat meat as I consider that action to be higher Quality than eating meat.
That's really all there is to it.

Why should all our actions be flipped in the skillet of reason like a crêpe?
--Milan Kundera



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[info]indriya
2004-11-18 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Agreed! :)

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[info]pixiedash
2004-11-18 09:35 pm UTC (link)
The way I figure it is this --

I can sustain myself healthily with eating plants, and can even cultivate a healthy farming environment where my plants and I understand on a more "spiritual" level that I eat veggies not to be cruel, but to sustain myself. Also, plants have a natural way of regrowing themselves. All you gotta do is add water and a touch of sunshine. ;)

I can't, however, sustain myself healthily on pure meats alone. Therefore, if I were to choose (and I do), I would choose to be a vegetarian because being a vegetarian is much healthier than being a carnivore (in many respects).

I'm glad you mentioned this. I've battled it myself a few times, and even if this is an "excuse" on my part to eating living creatures with souls (plants), it works for me. Heh. I'm also a Buddhist, too, so I can understand the spirituality behind this question.

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[info]emotive_wisdom
2004-11-18 10:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm a vegitarian because #1) it's generally more healthy than a meat based diet #2) it's generally less expensive at the grocery store #3) I'm not comfortable with the conditions most farmers keep their livestock before slaughter and lastly #4) dead animals just aren't very appealing to me.

I say "generally" and "most" because nothing is ever black-and-white.

My 2 cents.

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[info]strawbryfields
2004-11-18 11:47 pm UTC (link)
excellent point!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]lake_awake
2004-11-19 12:05 am UTC (link)
Being an animal myself I'm more sensitive to the pain of other animals; as pixiedash said, you don't technically have to kill the entire organism to eat plants, but you do to eat meat.

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[info]kaisersalsek
2004-11-19 05:15 am UTC (link)
erm, plants may be living but they have no brain...

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[info]vertigo25
2004-11-19 08:51 am UTC (link)
This question assumes that someone is vegetarian or vegan *because* they are nonviolent. My reasons are much more along the lines of emotive_wisdom and pixiedash.

We have to eat. That is final. If we remove both animal and vegetable, we are left only with synthetics and by-products (like milk). At this stage in our technological evolution, I don't think it's possible to eliminate both.

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[info]richmackin
2004-11-19 09:29 am UTC (link)
Well, here we are on round 300 of the vegan/ vegetarian question.

There is no difference between plants and animals. Clearly, the only moral thing to do is starve to death.

That said,let's hear from Alan Watts.

"Cows scream louder than carrots."

Go to somewhere where food plants grow. Pluck some food plants. Eat them. (This is easiest if you can find a fruit bearing tree)Consider how that experience feels.

Now, go find a food animal. Try and eat it. I suppose this is easiest if you kill the animal first, since chewing on a mobile thing might be hard. Consider how that experience feels.

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[info]arclight
2004-11-19 02:50 pm UTC (link)
It's either kill plants and eat them, or kill animals that have killed plants and eat them. Sounds like option #1 is more compassionate.

Not to mention the horrors of the meat industry.

k bub-bye now troll

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[info]lostsoul113
2004-11-19 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm a vegetarian, but not a very strict one. I don't have a problem with the natural process of humans hunting animals or growing food, because this doesn't upset any kind of ecological balance (is that a very Buddhist perspective?). But I don't eat meat because I don't want to financially support the meat industry, which raises the animals in terrible conditions and then slaughters them mercilessly. The suffering of the cow who was born, raised, and killed by humans is much greater than that of the cow who was born in the wild (there are wild cows) and was killed by a human hunter with a spear. I recognize that in order to eat, I must kill, but the killed animal does not have to suffer so much.

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[info]kittykatgrr
2004-11-19 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Plants Like To Be Pruned!
they leave behind seeds, but i still feel like your eating its karma,
but atleast the karma from an "organic orange" is better than that of a slaughtered cow.
now being served at mcdonalds.

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[info]cytwombly
2004-11-19 09:01 pm UTC (link)
a very big difference between eating plants and eating animals(without getting into whether plants feel or not) is that almost all of the meat people consume in "first world" countries comes from animals who suffer through horrible lives before they're killed( via the meat industry). plants, even if they do have feelings, don't.

so many people concentrate on whether it's good or bad to eat meat. to me that's only one of the questions to ask. i think it's very unnessecary to eat animals at all, but eating animals that you know have lived a natural life in the wild(i.e. hunting or raising your own farm animals), is much different to me than supporting a meat industry that makes animals suffer the way they do. i don't like getting preachy, but after finding out about common meat industry practices, it seems obvious to me that it's not okay to participate in that.

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Some humble thoughts
[info]kapwrit
2004-11-20 02:02 pm UTC (link)
I am not a veg/vega. I believe all things are on some level living. The fact is that if I eat nothing I die. So I try to find the middle way, reject extremes, Don't overeat{lest another starves}and don't undereat {your of little use as a skeleton-being}. I eat when hunger comes and stop short of gorging. The question of veg/vega is one to be examined indivually. There is a precept which says not to harm or kill living things for some that means not meat, answer that indivually There is a Story in Master Dogen's Shobogenzo Zuimonki in which a Monk hits a deer with a stick outside the temple each time the deer appears. At first the laymen and fellow monks say nothing about it as the monk is considered quite venerable. One day, a laymen scolds the old monk, saying For all your years and reported wisdom you know nothing of compassion! "For all your years and reported wisdom you know nothing of compassion!" the monk replys, " Fool, if I don't hit him he loses his survivial instint he has no pretors in our garden. That is compassion."

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