A ([info]bluebuckeye) wrote in [info]booju_newju,
@ 2009-06-28 14:00:00
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Entry tags:discipline

So let's say you have two or more children. You have one child that has always been a mellow child who does not get into trouble. They have good manners, like to share, and get along with pretty much everyone. You have another child who is not so good. They get into trouble a lot, they throw tantrums, and often focus their anger on their sibling. They will take their toys, ruin their things, tease them, hit them, and just generally treat them very badly. The "good" child has pretty much been forced to hide all of their things for fear that their sibling will steal or break them. And they spend a lot of time fearful that they will be hurt.


How would you deal with each of these kids? Would you give the "good" child the "bad" child's toys to replace what was broken? Would you buy new ones? Would you give the good child special privileges to make up for the fact that they were often harassed and bullied by the other child? Do you teach the good child to fight back when they are hit by the "bad" child?


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[info]j_lew
2009-06-28 06:22 pm UTC (link)
no kid in my house would be spending a second *fearful they will be hurt* by a sibling. I wouldnt give special treatment to make up fore the bullying etc as it would be stopped. How I would deal with it would depend on why the other child was acting this way.

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[info]adamantplatypus
2009-06-28 06:26 pm UTC (link)
THERAPY! THERAPY! THERAPY! For both kids.

I agree that no one should have to live fearing being hurt. I'd probably do what I could to see that the "bad" child left the other one the fuck alone.

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[info]nothingmuch
2009-06-28 06:36 pm UTC (link)
that's a paddlin'

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[info]hyouki
2009-06-28 08:01 pm UTC (link)
thank you.

if paddlin' doesn't work, that's a beatin'!

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[info]cece00
2009-06-28 08:26 pm UTC (link)
and dont forget chores upon chores upon chores and going straight to bed when you get home to only get out for dinner and then going straight back to bed...

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[info]hyouki
2009-06-28 08:27 pm UTC (link)
&being locked in a small, dark room with a slot for meals&whips.

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[info]idislikepenguin
2009-06-28 06:41 pm UTC (link)
You just described my childhood and teenage years. It sucks to be the "good kid".

I know I wouldn't do what my parents did and turn a blind eye to the bad kid's behavior, and tell the good kid to suck it up and deal. I honestly don't think my sister would have been nearly as bad if she had ever been held accountable for her own actions. Instead, everything she did was my fault because I'm older. (Also, I MUST have been exaggerating how terrible she was to me, because, after all, I'm older. Who "lets" their little sister torture them?)

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[info]tovasshi
2009-06-28 06:43 pm UTC (link)
Pretty much this, except she was older than me. Their excuse was "well, shes sick and has had a hard life."

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[info]hexkitten
2009-06-28 06:54 pm UTC (link)
Who "lets" their little sister torture them?

Someone whose parents tell her to suck it up and deal but not by beating the crap out of her sister?

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[info]idislikepenguin
2009-06-28 06:57 pm UTC (link)
I don't think I could have if I wanted to. She was younger, but she was also way bigger, and I was sick a lot.

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[info]hexkitten
2009-06-28 07:08 pm UTC (link)
That's pretty crap.

I had cousins like your sister. My mom always told me to just be nice because they were younger.

A few years back, my brother laughingly brought them up in conversation, as well as an incident that I didn't remember. Apparently, during one visit they both ganged up on me. My hands shot out and I grabbed each of them by the neck and started to lift them off their feet. My brother said they had to yell at me to make me drop them...but that he had secretly found it funny all these years.

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[info]tovasshi
2009-06-28 06:42 pm UTC (link)
I grew up as the fearful child. My sister was a massive asshole. My parents didn't do anything. The reason she was like that is mainly due to how spoiled she was. She got away with everything. I got in massive shit if I stood up for myself.

We tried family therapy. It was mainly the therapist telling me to shut my mouth and letting her talk because she was obviously the one who was "suffering" and dealing with a lot of internal issues.

As a result I'm in the process of disowning my parents, mainly my mom.

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[info]akcipitrokulo
2009-06-28 07:01 pm UTC (link)
I'd try to avoid labelling them, even to myself, as the good one & the bad one - it's too easy for kids to pick up on that sort of feeling, and then act as they think you expect them to behave. Slef-fulfilling prophesies can be a bitch.

I'd also be wary of assuming that the "good" child is always the innocent party... when I was younger, I was the "good" one, and could provoke my sister into misbehaving and even attacking me quite easily. I went through a stage of that... one i remember most was in church, pointing to the words in the hymn-book for her. She could read perfectly well, knew that I knew this, and got REALLY angry. I knew this, which was why I did it, and liked feeling superior when she threw a tantrum in church & got into lots of trouble.

(Yeah, I was a shit at times... I have apologised to my sister in later life!)

I also remember an episode of one of those "fix my child" shows where they had hidden cameras - the bad child got into trouble for making a mess, but the camera showed the good child deliberately making the mess & standing back & enjoying the other getting into trouble.

I'd try to work on their doing things together, and act as if I expected both of them to behave well towards each other. If it got really bad, to the stage that one was afraid of the other, I'd possibly look at getting professional help.

I wouldn't give one child the other child's toys, but I may very well confiscate the misbehaving child's toys.

Despite the different behaviour, they both need attention - I'd try to get the "bad" child to stop thinking of themselves as someone who does that.

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[info]lilpocketninja
2009-06-28 07:17 pm UTC (link)
My sister and I were both fairly well behaved, but she would do that sort of thing to provoke me.

She also used to hit me or herself loud enough to make a noise and then scream that I hit her.

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[info]akcipitrokulo
2009-06-28 09:10 pm UTC (link)
Once when we were fighting on the way home (I think from gym class or something) she pulled out some of my hair, which i retrieved as eviedence... she then bit herself to have something for her to show. My mother gave up trying to sort out what had happened when I demanded that she look at the patterns that our teeth made.

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[info]duckay
2009-06-29 02:11 am UTC (link)
My cousins are a bit like that. The younger one will spend ages trying to provoke her brother into yelling at her or taking a swing at her, and then get him into trouble.

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[info]angelfalling
2009-06-28 07:28 pm UTC (link)
I agree about the labeling. Kids tend to like the boxes we put them in and like to live up to that expectation. I think throwing a fit over the unruly kid when they misbehave is another mistake, too.

I'd probably direct attention towards the "good" kid when the "bad" kid hurts her-- make a point to show the other sibling how she hurt her, and that if we can't play nice together, we'll play separately. Then pour on the attention when the other child is playing well or treating their sibling well.

Unfortunately I think the problem in a lot of these situations is the parents "freak out" when the 'bad' kid acts out and a lot of ignoring said kid (out of relief that they are not busy tackling some problem) is actually playing nicely. Negative attention is attention.

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[info]akcipitrokulo
2009-06-28 09:08 pm UTC (link)
*nods* it's an easy thing to do though - it's a lot of work to find something good to pay attention to when you're knackered from keeping them from killing each other! It is definitely the best way to deal with it though to control the attention being given to the bad behaviour & give lots to good (or even neutral) behaviour.

My dad was a teacher, and once asked a kid why he had done something - got the anser "Because I'm bad." That was it - the kid had been successfully boxed & labelled & acted up because that was what he was MEANT to do... not to mention the poor wee guy was miserable.

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[info]madeofsteele68
2009-06-28 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. Sibling dynamics are often such that situations are not always as straightforward as they seem to be to someone who hasn't watched those situations evolve. I'm one of 5 siblings, and often was labeled as the troublemaker but I have to say, my siblings were expert provokers.

I keep any eye on my three to make sure no one is physically hurting the others or in any way mentally bullying them, but mostly I tell them to work things out between themselves. If I have to intervene, I try really hard not to place blame and at that point I'll just separate them for awhile.

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[info]akcipitrokulo
2009-06-28 09:06 pm UTC (link)
Yeah - if you try to work out what actually happened, then you're giving the bad shit attention, which is counterproductive. Although it did feel unfair when I was younger, becasue we had a sense of "there must be justice!" so would present our cases quite passionately.

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[info]failstoexist
2009-06-28 07:28 pm UTC (link)
I'd definitely put a lock on the non-destructive kid's door, to keep the other kid out, but that would not be the end of the solution. I would impose consequences on the other sibling, and I would also observe to see if the "good" child were teasing or otherwise instigating this craziness. I will teach my other child to keep their things safe, to keep themselves safe, and not to feed into their sibling's nutty behavior.

if I can't deal with the behavior on my own, the child may need therapy, or I may need to consult some friends with behavior analysis experience who could see the situation objectively.

I know I was a little shit to my brother sometimes and I would yell from across the room that he was hitting me, and my mom would fly into the room and send him up to his room as punishment...when he'd been sitting very nicely and watching tv. we used to do crap like that to each other all the time. Things like that would make me hesitate to replace the items or take away the other child's toys unless I had seen them break it with my own eyes.

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[info]zeldazonk
2009-06-28 08:13 pm UTC (link)
If my kids are fearful of their siblings I will be doling out some assbeatings. If "bad kid" doesn't get it the easy way, we are in for a long, long ride.

I'd also want my "bad kid" evaluated for some kind of mental disorder. Depending on the age, and the cause of the issue, "bad kid" might be moving elsewhere.


My sisters and I fought when we were kids (we argue now, too) but we were never cruel to each other or purposely out to torture each other. I would be seriously concerned if my kids were that awful to each other. Ugh.

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[info]cece00
2009-06-28 08:25 pm UTC (link)
My "bad" child would not be allowed to act like that.

I have 4 kids, but my older 2 kids would fit well into this "scenario". My 2nd son has ADHD and some other issues and he is prone to tantrums more than his brother.

But he is not allowed to act like that. He is not allowed to carry on with a tantrum, he wouldnt break toys and ruin things, but if I pretend that he would, then I would handle that the same way as the tantrums- not allowed.

Any time he starts to have a "tantrum" about something, I tell him that he can stop, or go to his bed, as a warning. He usually chills. If not, he can go to his bed with the door closed and he knows he is not allowed to get out of his bed and he can stay there until I say he can come out. I have no problem (and again, we dont really have these issues but very very rarely) punishing him or taking priviledges away until there would be nothing left to get him to cooperate with the rules of the home, and he knows this. I have never, ever had to punish him from all toys and priviledges in his life because he knows I'm the adult, and I make the rules and as a child in the home, he will follow them or face consequences.

But if my kid did the stuff in your post, I would discipline him until we licked the problem, because I will not have a child in my home who thinks their "bad" behavior is going to get them anywhere.

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[info]dreamsreflected
2009-06-29 12:32 am UTC (link)
my brother was the "bad kid" in this secnario. He's on the autistic spectrum and was really adhd when he was a kid. At one point they put him on amphetamines for his ADHD and he got so violent he threw me down the stairs and broke my right arm. I spent 2 weeks in a cast, he got no TV for 20 minutes after he did it... We're only two years apart and he's the younger sibling. My parents had trouble punishing or disciplining him at all as he'd been the "sick baby" for the first 3 years of his life. I think they were afraid they'd break him.

I ended up in an abusive marriage as an adult I believe partially because I had no idea how to respect myself or set boundaries for other people as I'd always been told to "give him(brother) one more chance" which some how equated to me valuing my healthy and safety below what I felt was acceptable for other people, I wouldn't even admit my ex was abusive until after I left him for emotionally abusing our then 2 year old. I'd let him treat me like garbage but I wouldn't put up with him treating the kids that way. Some years of therapy and distance later I would actively go out of my way to avoid letting either of my children bully the other in that capacity.

Therapy for all parties involved.

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[info]mybabythomas
2009-06-29 09:35 am UTC (link)
That sounds like my kids! (Although my 'bad' child isn't really bad, she just acts like a toddler because she is one.)

I deal with it by not leaving them unsupervised together for more than a few minutes, and when she tries to snatch her brother's toys I stop her and redirect her to a different toy, and when she hits him I stop her and make her apologise. I am also trying to teach my son to stick up for himself and not just sit there passively and let his sister hit him.

My son does not have "special privileges" to make up for the fact that we live with a toddler. But he does have the option of playing in his bedroom if he wants to get away from her trying to hit him and mess up his toys.

So far I've managed to prevent my daughter from breaking any of my son's toys (he plays with any breakables in his room, where she is not allowed), but if she did break something of his I would replace it. But I would not give the "good" child the "bad" child's toys, I make them share all their toys anyway. They each have one special cuddly toy that they take to bed at night, and I'm not going to take that away from them, I don't think that depriving a child of their 'lovey' is ever an appropriate way to deal with their behaviour.

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