espnchick1920 ([info]espnchick1920) wrote in [info]blackfolk,
@ 2006-06-20 12:30:00
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To live with or not???

Who loses most in a breakup?

Everything looked promising for Lauren Laughead and her boyfriend when they moved from Boston to Dallas in 2002 for his job. They had been living together for nearly four years and were planning to marry. They even bought a town house in Dallas.

But the dream was derailed two years later when her boyfriend ended the relationship. "Since the property was in his name, and he was at fault for the breakup, I just moved out," says Laughead, who handles advertising for a law firm. "I paid off my part of the credit card and left it at that. I had helped pay part of the mortgage for a year. I lost that money. He's got equity."

Her experience illustrates a little-noted peril of cohabitation: the potentially negative financial consequences of breaking up. When unmarried couples who have been living together part company, women are substantially worse off economically than men, according to a study in the Journal of Marriage and Family.

Men's household income drops by 10%, while women lose 33%. The percentage of women living in poverty increases from 20% to 30%, while men's poverty level remains relatively unchanged at about 20%.

Women lose more across the board

Even the 33% drop for women strikes some financial experts as too low. "That's a nice statistic, but I think it's far worse than that," says Doris Theune, senior vice president of Bryn Mawr Trust Co. in Bryn Mawr, Pa. "I live in a very affluent area, yet I see women all the time lose out across the board. It's the same as divorce. If women have given up a career, or if they have relocated, then they lose."

 

More than 40% of American women under the age of 45 have lived unmarried with a male partner at some point, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. In 2000, 9.7 million Americans were cohabiting with an unmarried partner of the opposite sex, while 1.2 million lived with a same-sex partner.

Unlike divorce, cohabitation offers no economic protection for either party. For married couples, there are precedents, formulas and divorce court, says Debra Neiman, a certified financial planner in Watertown, Mass. "For unmarried folks, there is no such playing field. It's up to the couple at the onset, or early in the relationship, to set the stage and make preparations for what would happen in the event of dissolution."

When dreams go awry

Yet starry-eyed young lovers don't like to think of that possibility. "It's amazing how many of my friends in their early-to-late 20s go through this," says Laughead, referring to her breakup. "A lot of us go into a (live-in) relationship with a positive outlook. We think, 'Oh, nothing bad will happen.' The girl typically thinks, 'This is going to be great, we're (eventually) going to get married.'"

 

Among Laughead's friends, the woman is typically the one who moves out. She must find a place to live and buy furniture. "You realize, 'Oh, my college furniture -- I sold that,'" Laughead says. "Or you have a couch and a headboard and no mattress. Those are expenses you don't think of."

Her ex-boyfriend incurred expenses, too. "When I moved out, all the kitchenware was mine," she says. "He came home and didn't have any kitchen supplies anymore."

But because her boyfriend paid the bulk of the down payment, the town house was in his name. "We figured when we got married, we'd change it to include me," she says. He was also the primary account holder on the utilities. After she left and needed her own telephone and utilities, she had no record of good credit.

Call in the big guns for a big purchase

Unmarried couples who want to buy a home should have an attorney draft a property agreement, says Neiman, coauthor, with Sheryl Garrett, of the forthcoming "Money Without Matrimony." "It could simply say, 'In the event of a breakup, Party A has the right of first refusal to buy the property from Party B.' It could be more explicit and say, 'The purchase price will be based on the average of two or three market appraisals.'"

 

Some women discover less-obvious economic penalties when cohabitation ends. "They're not saving as effectively for themselves," because they see themselves as part of a team, Allen says.

Women also tend to feather the nest more than men, buying curtains, towels and sheets, Theune says. "That's hard to put a dollar value on."

Pepper Schwartz, a sociologist and relationship expert for perfectmatch.com, advises couples who are thinking about living together to ask serious questions:

  • What are we doing here?

 

  • Is this an open-ended situation that may not turn into anything?

 

  • If we love each other, will we marry?

 

"Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean you don't need to know the answer," she says.

Dogs and credit cards

In the event of a breakup, Schwartz adds, couples must consider another key question: "What do we owe each other under these circumstances -- money, furniture, dogs?"

 

Dogs were part of the negotiations when Stacy Katz's first live-in relationship ended. She and her boyfriend had two dogs, and they were a big issue in dividing their property. Each took one.

Since then, Katz, of New York, now a manager for a financial-regulatory service, has had two other cohabiting relationships, each lasting about a year. When the first and third ended, she incurred no serious financial losses.

But with her second boyfriend, she learned a hard lesson after she allowed him to use her credit card. "I was the cardholder, but he had his name on it, too. When I moved away, he ran it up and didn't pay it," she says.

Katz had also co-signed a car loan. After she left, her ex-boyfriend let the insurance run out. He had an accident and couldn't pay for the repairs. "Creditors were pursuing me for a long time for the credit card and car loan," she says. That hurt her credit rating.

Set up joint accounts

To protect both parties, Allen says, the safest approach is to have joint accounts, joint assets and run the household on a budget that both people contribute to, perhaps pro rata, based on income. But even a joint tenancy account carries risks: Either party can empty it out. She suggests an account that requires two signatures -- an "and" account, not an "or" account.

 

Very often, couples go into these relationships in a state of "glee mania," Theune finds. "By the time the bloom is off the rose, they find themselves in this financial, emotional, psychological bind. Getting out of it is legally easier if you're not married, but the devastation is as harmful." She finds that many women "didn't take time to prepare themselves to leave, financially or otherwise."

One woman she knows relocated to a new city with her boyfriend after they became engaged. When they broke up, she had to move back and find another job. But they did work out a financial settlement to cover what she would need for one year to get re-established.

Higher stakes at midlife

Among younger couples, cohabitation can often involve a lighthearted commitment with lighthearted exits, Garrett says. But as the practice becomes more common among middle-aged couples who may be altar-shy after a divorce, the stakes are higher. "When they were 22, they split up the lawn furniture they were using in the living room. When they're 40 or 50, they often have significant assets and liabilities."

 

If a couple can't work out the financial aspects of a breakup in a civil manner, Schwartz suggests getting a third-party mediator to help. "If you end up in court, it'll be just awful," she warns. "You might need somebody to talk to, to see if you are due any economic recompense for the relationship. But in general, you signed up for something that wasn't marriage."

Laughead offers her own cautionary note to unmarried couples. "If you're paying toward something, you need to make sure your name is on it somewhere. If the worst-case scenario happens, you want to protect all your assets."

Garrett takes a similarly pragmatic approach. "You need to think of unmarried couples more like business partners," she says. "If you own anything together, or owe anything together, this is your business partner. It's definitely not romantic, but it's very healthy and a smart way to protect yourself and your loved ones."

By Marilyn Gardner, The Christian Science Monitor

 



I'm not knockin' other people so PLEASE don't think I'm trying to pass judgement on anyone.  I just know that for ME, PERSONALLY...I couldn't be in a "living with but not married to" situation.  How do you all feel about it?


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[info]aphrodite_san
2006-06-20 04:42 pm UTC (link)
I couldn't do that either. All those arrangements come with marriage for me.

(Reply to this)


[info]littledrummrboy
2006-06-20 04:44 pm UTC (link)
I live with my girlfriend now. We intend for it to be engagement -> marriage eventually, but it's not that time yet. However, it's not too big a deal in that respect in that we don't really own anything of consequence jointly, so we've still got a pretty clear sense of her shit vs. my shit.

(Reply to this)


[info]mizcrank
2006-06-20 04:46 pm UTC (link)
i don't do the "shacking up" thing, for more reasons beyond this...but this is a main reason.

(Reply to this)


[info]jk_fabiani
2006-06-20 04:47 pm UTC (link)
Sad to see people laying claim to other peoples shit instead of making thier own life anew. What a waste of energy that type of crap is...

Its so selfish.

(Reply to this)


[info]tressiemc
2006-06-20 04:48 pm UTC (link)
i don't do it either. though i don't like anybody in my house, but still.

i had a dude who conveniently 'visited' me once and forgot to leave. he came back one day to find the locks changed. i don't play that shit.

even when married though women MUST take care of their bizness. even if you don't divorce chances are EXCELLENT that you'll outlive him. You got to have your own.

I just recently backed out of a deal with my spouse cause i felt iffy on his ability to uphold his end. No hard feelings. This is real life, MY life. I can't play with the little bit of hard earned credit and money I've got.

And that line about all the household nicities that women tend to buy and men don't - biggest drain of a women's take home as I've seen it in my friends. That's the kind of stuff no one thinks of.

Got to have some vision and some planning skills ladies. It's nobody's job to take care of you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Yes! - [info]tericol, 2006-06-20 06:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]polymexina, 2006-06-20 06:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tressiemc, 2006-06-20 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]polymexina, 2006-06-20 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tressiemc, 2006-06-20 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]polymexina, 2006-06-20 07:29 pm UTC
PREACH! - [info]black_reign, 2006-06-20 06:36 pm UTC
Re: PREACH! - [info]tressiemc, 2006-06-20 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]biodance, 2006-06-21 03:34 pm UTC

[info]albino_dinosaur
2006-06-20 04:49 pm UTC (link)
lack of preparation can hurt anybody, married or otherwise.

(Reply to this)


[info]blackestsheep
2006-06-20 04:56 pm UTC (link)
i had a girlfriend live with me and i relocated to live with somebody... neither worked out but, i don't regret either decision, it's just another stop in journey that is my life... bottom line is you handle business correctly... ain't no gaurantees... married or otherwise...

(Reply to this)


[info]hisprophet
2006-06-20 05:05 pm UTC (link)
why someone want to live with you and not marry you? Something is missing there.
I have gotten the offer but would not take it. Someone wants the joys of having a wife, then make me one.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aphrodite_san, 2006-06-20 05:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittylarock, 2006-06-20 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 05:16 pm UTC
Uh huh... - [info]i_dreamed_i_was, 2006-06-20 05:32 pm UTC
Re: Uh huh... - [info]fembot, 2006-06-20 08:57 pm UTC
Mmm Hmm... - [info]i_dreamed_i_was, 2006-06-21 04:47 am UTC
Re: Uh huh... - [info]kanders, 2006-06-21 12:46 am UTC
Mmm... - [info]i_dreamed_i_was, 2006-06-21 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littleeva, 2006-06-20 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 05:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littleeva, 2006-06-20 05:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 06:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]polymexina, 2006-06-20 06:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - amour___propre, 2006-06-20 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - amour___propre, 2006-06-20 09:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fembot, 2006-06-20 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fembot, 2006-06-20 08:59 pm UTC
Hmmm... - [info]i_dreamed_i_was, 2006-06-21 04:55 am UTC

[info]kozmicgreys
2006-06-20 05:09 pm UTC (link)
This is totally superficial, but, though it is cheaper to live with a roommate or two or ten in Boston, I don't think I could live with a boyfriend simply for the fact that he would move out anyway when he saw me have one of my "no makeup, no comb, no brush, no shower" weekends, in old boxer shorts and a tent-size t-shirt... I mean, not that it happens often tho...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 05:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kozmicgreys, 2006-06-20 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubyphoenix, 2006-06-20 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kozmicgreys, 2006-06-20 06:45 pm UTC

[info]neonix25
2006-06-20 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Meh. I don't get how people just move in with each other all willy nilly. That just seems crazy. I'm not all "OMGZ, Marriage is the only reason folks should be tog3th3R!" either.

If I found a relationship with a person that if it didn't work out, we could still cope and live together (and THAT right there is a rare and a hard thing to maintain) then I'd do the cohabitating thing. But if not, then it'd be best to just keep a few of your thing here and a few of my things at your place... just in case :)

Because once you have a lease and shit, it is serious and I don't need nobody but myself help fuck up my credit.

Of course, I live at home so.. *shrugs* Moms would say no to you stayin' here anyway.

(Reply to this)


[info]rhomea
2006-06-20 05:19 pm UTC (link)
i don't have any moral objections to it personally. and I would do it. but my mom and her whole side of the family would probably jump off the roof if they found out.

(Reply to this)


[info]rhomea
2006-06-20 05:22 pm UTC (link)
also, don't kill me for saying this.

but I think most guys want a test run (the milk for free). I've heard a lot of black women have objections to living together without being married, but I've never heard any white women talk about it. Maybe that is a reason why black women don't get married as much.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 05:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashatay, 2006-06-20 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milya79, 2006-06-20 06:59 pm UTC

[info]kristiangrrl
2006-06-20 05:23 pm UTC (link)
The best thing to do if you enter a cohabitation situation with a boyfriend or someone you're not married to is to get a contract drawn up about shared assets, etc.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vivianstcloud, 2006-06-20 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackestsheep, 2006-06-20 05:37 pm UTC

[info]ashatay
2006-06-20 05:25 pm UTC (link)
I don't subscribe to that type of lifestyle. I'd like to have a ring on my finger and such before I make plans to move in.

(Reply to this)

Didn't do it...
[info]i_dreamed_i_was
2006-06-20 05:26 pm UTC (link)
And wouldn't do it, either. There are just some things that I think are the domain of marriage, and some things I would only do with my husband. That includes setting up house together. Maybe it's just symbolic, but it's what makes sense to me. And though I also didn't want to have/didn't have sex before I was married, it wasn't about "avoiding the appearance of impropriety." Because that's no one's business. I just... don't "trust," in a sense, the idea of living with someone without having also committed completely to him (him, in my case, since I'm straight). To ME, it's like... why mix all that when we haven't committed to forever? Seems like a hassle, no matter the savings in rent. But then I can say that, too, since I was married young and didn't live on my own for years and years and years.

I did have to stay with my husband briefly before we were married, when we were engaged. My housing plans fell through and I didn't really have anywhere else to go for a few weeks. But I was living out of a suitcase, not at all eager to set up a household with him until we said "I do." And I hightailed it out of there ASAP. Some of my acquaintances who happened to meet me when I was staying with him (beginning of a semester) were really concerned when they figured out I had moved out-- they thought I had ended the engagement. What can I say? I'm an oddball.

But, like you, I don't pass judgment wholesale on people who live with each other before/without being married (or committed in some way/ceremony/whatever). In some cases, I think it's a bad idea. But then, a lot of marriages are bad ideas.

(Reply to this)

I don't see getting married again!
[info]tericol
2006-06-20 05:29 pm UTC (link)
I moved in with my boyfriend/partner of nine years with no qualms. I had been married and burned financially before!

For me, it was a matter of being in a relationship yet being financially independent. We bought a house together, with both of our names on the mortgage/deed and we split the bills equally. Him paying the gas/electric/water and me paying the phone/cable/internet. It worked out perfectly, for us.

Granted, he passed away and dealing with the probate issues was a little messy, but no more so than it would have been had we actually been married.

Just my POV

Plus, my family did nag a bit, but they knew that it was my decision and not his to continue on without a wedding.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I don't see getting married again! - [info]lindito, 2006-06-20 05:52 pm UTC
Re: I don't see getting married again! - [info]tericol, 2006-06-20 06:03 pm UTC
Re: I don't see getting married again! - [info]tericol, 2006-06-20 06:04 pm UTC

[info]yogaclass4cats
2006-06-20 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I think it depends on the situation.

My fiance currently lives in Florida, which is over 800 miles away from where I am. If one of us were to relocate, it wouldn't make sense to go out to a city you're not familiar with and live with someone you don't know. He's moving up here next year, and we're going to be living together. Where else would he live, if not with me?

Plus, for reasons already stated, it's cheaper and more economical, especially if you live in a huge city with an expensive cost of living.

I know people who have done it and had it work out, and I know people who have had the opposite experience. I wouldn't ever rule out cohabitation; people just have to be safe and mindful of their financial assets and situation before they jump into living together. They have to be realistic, too. Break ups could happen, and they have to prepare for that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]littledrummrboy, 2006-06-20 05:58 pm UTC

[info]cindel
2006-06-20 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I wouldn't do it. Both my cousin and my sister did and only my cousin got burned. My sister ended up marrying the guy. My cousin on the other hand; I lived with her when I was in LA and she met this guy at the gym and after I moved out, she moved in with him. The relationship didn't work out and she ended up moving back to MD.

(Reply to this)


[info]toodani
2006-06-20 05:43 pm UTC (link)
ok it just seems really weird to me that most of the women are saying No to cohabitation before marriage and using the old "milk for free" sayings and saying that if he wants me he has to do it RIGHT etc etc etc.

Does this mean that none of you were having sex with your men? (with the exception of michelle) Because that's what the milk is. What are these morals and values being shot to hell when you move in together?

In a sense, I understand the setting up house argument, although I don't subscribe to it because I am not a traditional girl in that sense anyway. There will be a pretty even division of labor in my household, married or not.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - melaninjitsu, 2006-06-20 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 08:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - jadedjade, 2006-06-20 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milya79, 2006-06-20 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stuberyl, 2006-06-20 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milya79, 2006-06-20 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littledrummrboy, 2006-06-20 06:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 06:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littledrummrboy, 2006-06-20 06:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hisprophet, 2006-06-20 06:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - amour___propre, 2006-06-20 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 08:55 pm UTC
What she said. . . . . . - [info]mendemama, 2006-06-20 06:23 pm UTC
Re: What she said. . . . . . - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 08:56 pm UTC
word. - [info]mendemama, 2006-06-20 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewayoftheid, 2006-06-20 06:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cumaeansibyl, 2006-06-20 07:46 pm UTC

[info]lindito
2006-06-20 05:45 pm UTC (link)
well, if we could get married, we would.

almost everything is mine, but my boyfriend is the citizen, so this presents all types of problems. (it is going to look like we will not be able to buy the car that we want because i have much better credit, but no south african driver's license... and the banks will not finance anyone without one.)

we plan to get married, but gay marriage does not become legal here until after my visa expires. we may go to canada to get hitched, but that's pissing away $6000 on airfare and hotel to do so. ugh.

(my visa expires in november; marriage will become legal in december.)

(Reply to this)

I've Done It & Will Do It Again
[info]zebeagle
2006-06-20 05:56 pm UTC (link)
I have to live with a guy before I marry him. I'm so picky, I have to know that I can stand all of his annoying habits before I marry him.

I lived with my last boyfriend and he turned into a bum so I left him. I'm glad I wasn't married to him first because I think I would have been in a worse situation. I've learned how to protect myself the next time around. Moving in with him made me realize how important it is for me to move in with my next boyfriend.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I've Done It & Will Do It Again - [info]tericol, 2006-06-20 06:07 pm UTC
Re: I've Done It & Will Do It Again - [info]lilmzeccho, 2006-06-20 06:50 pm UTC

[info]missfadu
2006-06-20 06:10 pm UTC (link)
This post has really helped me out. I'll be graduating in two weeks and my boyfriend wants me to move in. I told him many times that I'm not moving in without a ring atleast. A commitment. Can;t have your cake and eat it too, I'm sorry. He's sorta convinced me but I'm still riding the fence on it. But anyway, he says he wants to marry me but he wants to wait a few years when his finances are right and etc. I don't get it. I don't get it, whats the difference?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]littledrummrboy, 2006-06-20 06:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindito, 2006-06-20 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - amour___propre, 2006-06-20 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toodani, 2006-06-20 06:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindito, 2006-06-20 06:26 pm UTC
I see no problem with it..
[info]sugah_high
2006-06-20 06:16 pm UTC (link)
That's probably because I have seen it done with no problems. My mother and stepfather lived together moving from an apt to a house for over 8 years before finally getting married in las vegas a couple of years ago. My grandmother also did it. After divorcing my grandfather she met my (step) grandfather and they lived apart for almost 15 years then finally my nana sold her house and moved in with him marrying 2 years later.

I'm also doing it now, I own a house which I bought 9 months after I met my bf and about a month later her moved in. For the past 2.5 years he has helped pay half of everything and has actually helped furnish the place. Everything is in my name except some utilities. We will be getting married in a few years but even if for some unseen reason it didn't happen I'd be fine finacially because we both have separate accounts.

In the end I feel if you decide to co-habitate be smart about it.

(Reply to this)


[info]black_reign
2006-06-20 06:30 pm UTC (link)
In the end I feel if you decide to co-habitate be smart about it.


Co-sign.

Common Sense people, you always need a "what if" plan if things don't work out in this love story. This shit isn't Rocket Science and you don't live in fairy tale land.

(Reply to this)


[info]darkrosetiger
2006-06-20 06:44 pm UTC (link)
I couldn't imagine being married to someone without living with them first. It's not about the sex for me--it's about the fact that I've spent most of my adult life living in apartments by myself. I know damned well that I can be a pain in the ass to live with: I'm OCD as hell, and I'll freak out if the inside of the microwave isn't clean while not vacuuming for a month. I'm a picky eater; I have fucked-up internal temperature settings; I have a neurotic cat whose presence is not negotiable; my idea of a fun evening is being online. There's no way I would want someone to commit to spending her life with me without having the experience of what it's like to live with me long-term.

Back in the mid-'90's, I got engaged to a guy. We lived together for three years, partly because it wasn't economically feasible to have two separate residences in Boston. Things were good at first, but as time went on, it becames clear that he and I both had our own issues that weren't going to be worked out any time soon. We broke up; all things considered, it was relatively amicable. We didn't have any big joint purchases and we'd never combined our finances into a joint account, so the trickiest thing was sorting out the books and CD's. In retrospect, if we'd gotten married, it would have been much worse, because we'd still have had the same issues, but splitting up would have been a hell of a lot more complicated.

At the moment, of course, I don't exactly have the option to marry the person I want to spend the rest of my life with...so, yeah.

(Reply to this)


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