витязь в тигровом халате ([info]fyysik) wrote in [info]bezilla,
@ 2004-03-16 20:46:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Tinderbox problem. Project of Open Letter to community.
We still have problem with official visibility and acceptance at mozilla.org. Kind of underground existance. Partly due lack of nightly official builds and tinderbox. I wrote in my bad English project of Open letter to be sent to BeOSJournal.org and ZetaNews.com, for discussion. To help Edward, who agreed to take that hard work for BeOS community pleasure. Need your opinion:


Support Firefox/Mozilla under BeOS - donate computer parts for tinderbox machine.

"Hello, our beloved BeOS community.
We, development team, wish to inform you about some problems, related to current state of Firefox/Mozilla for BeOS development.
Good news is that crisis is partially over, and we have small but quite creative team.
Bad news is that BeOS-port is still in limbo, in official sense.

What does it mean and what is problem?
Problem is that besides development as creating new code and patches, being part of big multiplatform project requires existance of process of permanent compilation and automated testing. Which shouldn't stop even for minute.

It is absolutely clear that this process cannot be accomplished on those computers, which are in use in development process itself and are in use for million of other task.
So there is special term for such dedicated machines - "tinderbox". It needs special configuration and maintenance.

Current/previous BeOS tinderbox is placed at mozilla.org but it is old, slow and dying.

Fortunately, there is person who is brave enough to take such less creative but very essential work, as bezilla.org maintainership and BeOS tinderbox maintenance. His name is Edward Dore.

Unfortunately, he lacks at moment such free from other tasks machine, which should be quite powerful.

And ideally, there must be separate tiderboxen for several task - e.g. separate boxes for Firefox and for Seamonkey, for netserver and for BONE/Zeta builds, but even single Seamonkey-netserver machine will be big help in official BeZilla reborn.

So, as we, BeOS community aren't backed at moment by any viable company, which may help us in such things, but good browser is one of most importan software pieces nowadays (IMHO more importan that Office Suite), there is call for donations.
It is not just about money, but rather about computer parts, reuqred for tinderbox building.


Regards, BeZilla development team, in care about your and our pleasure."



(Post a new comment)

Corrected English
[info]tangobravo
2004-03-16 12:50 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure on my opinion on the idea as a whole yet. I did correct the English of the letter though (hopefully it still makes all the same points).

ps - spelling may not be perfect, but it reads quite well now IMHO.

Too many characters, I'll include it in a reply...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Corrected English
[info]tangobravo
2004-03-16 12:50 pm UTC (link)
Support Firefox/Mozilla under BeOS - donate computer parts for tinderbox machine.

"To all members of the great BeOS community,

With the recent departure of Paul Ashford from the community in general and the BeZilla project in particular, there have been some changes with the BeOS port of Mozilla.

The good news is that the crisis caused by Paul leaving is partially over, and we have a small but quite creative team working hard on the BeOS port of this vital piece of software. However the bad news is that in the official sense, the BeOS port is still in limbo.

So what exactly is the problem?
The problem is that besides development tasks such as creating new code and fixing bugs, being part of a big multiplatform project such as Mozilla requires a continuous automated compilation and testing process. This process must continue 24/7, to give anybody commiting a change to any part of Mozilla confirmation that the BeOS port still builds and runs correctly after the change.

Obviously, this task cannot be carried out by the developers' own machines - they are in use for the development process itself and millions of other tasks. Therefore dedicated machines are required - mozilla.org has many of these with different setups carrying this continuous build/run cycle on the code, called "tinderboxes".

The current BeOS tinderbox is placed at mozilla.org but it is old, slow, and dying. Now it seems to be down more often than not, and that can lead to many problems. A lot of time has been spent recently fixing build bustage in the BeOS port, and without a tinderbox it is very difficult to find which change caused the breakage. Consider that Mozilla consists of 50,000 source files, and that many changes are made to different areas of the code every day, and it becomes clear why having a regular log of builds made every hour or so can be very helpful.

Edward Dore has volunteered to take on the less creative but no less important work of maintaining the bezilla.org web site, and looking after BeOS builds including the tinderbox.

Unfortunately, he doesn't have a machine to send to mozilla.org to replace the current tinderbox that is nearing the end of its useful life. Ideally, we would like separate tiderboxes for several tasks - e.g. separate boxes for Firefox and Mozilla, and for netserver and BONE/Zeta builds. However even a single new Mozilla-netserver machine will be a big help in getting our port recognised as officially alive.

As well as being a useful tool for the developers the tinderbox machine also provides the nightly builds hosted at mozilla.org. This means that when fixes are commited to the tree, users can test them out the next day without one of the development team having to waste time reconfiguring their setup to create a release build. Also a regular flow of nightly builds will help the people at mozilla.org realise that the BeOS port is still alive and in active development.

As there are no companies making big money out of BeOS at the moment, we are forced to ask the community for donations. It is not just about money, but rather about computer parts required for buiding at least one new tinderbox. The machines should ideally be fairly powerful, as compiling mozilla takes a long time even on fast hardware (over an hour on a fast Athlon XP), and the more frequently builds are produced, the more useful the tinderbox is.

A good browser is one of the most important pieces of software for any modern platform. We are sure that anyone who has used one of the latest builds of Mozilla or Firefox on BeOS will agree that the port is steadily improving, and we have many more improvements lined up for the future. A new tinderbox would really help our development, and would also confirm that the BeOS port is still alive to the people in charge at mozilla.org. We hope you can help us to further improve the only truly modern browser available on BeOS.

Regards,
BeZilla Development Team.

If you have donations of money or hardware, or simply ideas on how we should proceed with the tinderbox issue, please contact Edward Dore thorugh the www.bezilla.org website.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Corrected English
[info]fyysik
2004-03-16 01:19 pm UTC (link)
Fine, but IMHO too wordy. Both version of text, but your more.

People are too "lazy" to reading something longer than headline size and written in "excusing" style.
Message must be short, attractive/aggressive and quite clean.

Maybe Edward himself can formulate it better, so waiting for his responce.

Btw, maybe i should add some update to main posting.
Donation to mozilla.org means tax reduction(?) for donator.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]mmadia
2004-03-16 09:33 pm UTC (link)
still cant find Edward Dore's contact info @ bezilla.org. Can someone please post his contact info or a link to it ? Possibly even a paypal email address for easy donations :)

for those who'd rather donate hardware rather than $$, what should we be aiming for? what cpu? sdram or ddr? minimum sized hd ? cdrom/floppy ?

i -might- be able to pull together some ~533mhz celeron or p2 systems to donate if they're useful. not exactly a speed demons but he can have them if he wants.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]tangobravo
2004-03-17 01:56 am UTC (link)
This was not really meant to be properly published yet. I tagged on the who to contact bit at the end, without actually agreeing on who would be the contact and how they should be contacted.

Personally, I'm not quite sure how this is going to work anyway - I think Edward needs to contact someone at mozilla to find out the procedure for getting the old tinderbox replaced.

A full build of mozilla will require a couple of gigs of HDD space, probably 256 MB RAM will be enough, and as fast a CPU as possible (ideally > 1 GHz).

The box is going to be running 24/7, so stability is a fairly important concern too.

Celeron/P2s are probably similar level to the current tinderbox - probably a bit slow for the full mozilla app suite, but might be useful as a firefox box. I don't know if firefox officially support "ports" yet though - IIRC they are only officially supporting mac, linux, and windows.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-17 06:49 am UTC (link)
I have been in contact with the mozilla people about replcing the Tinderbox and they say it is fine if we run it offsite, they will replace the one listed in the Sea-monkey ports section when we set it up.

My email address is edward.dore@bezilla.org which is used for contact and donatrinos, there is also a button on the main page of bezilla.org. I thought I'd put my contact info up but obviously not.

As for specs, I have a 4Gb partition which holds the OS, source tree and built code but its coming damn close to being full. The mahcine at the moment is a PII (I think, David Baron isn't sure either). We don't need a CD or floppy drive as I can load things on remotly over my network. Ideal DDR RAM and as fast and as many processors as possible ;)

There are no ports for Firefox or Thunderbird at the moment. I shall ask David about this.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]fyysik
2004-03-17 08:10 am UTC (link)
Kancept at BeShare is ready to provide as with even larger set of second-hand but not so bad machines, like from dual*450 up to 800 MHz Athlon/Duron, and also with bandwidth.
Try to get in direct communication with him.
But as i understood, this deal will be much more easier, if donation is officialy set as donation to mozilla.org (tax deduction)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]suppafly
2004-03-17 07:36 pm UTC (link)
should raffle the old tinderbox off.. someone would buy it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-17 11:42 pm UTC (link)
I don't know if it's ours to auction, I can find out but I doub't we'd get much for it considering hhow old and unstable it is unless you can convince some one it's part of BeOS's history then it might go for quite a bit to a collector.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]suppafly
2004-03-18 11:25 am UTC (link)
plus it's guaranteed to run beos right?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Edward Dore's contact info ???
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-18 11:29 am UTC (link)
Yes I supose there is that. If I get round to it I'll ask David Baron about it but I'm quite bust with other Tinderbox related tasks right now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Tinderbox Poll
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-19 02:18 am UTC (link)
There is a new poll up on BeZilla.org to name the new Tinderbox's.
So far I have been talking to knacept about a daul 1.13ghz PIII w/1Gb RAM and a 34.5Gb 10,000RPM HDD colocated at his ISPin Sun Vally, Washington DC on a T1 line. We have also recieved a pledge of a 500mgz PIII and several 550mhz PIII's.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Tinderbox Poll
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-19 11:34 pm UTC (link)
Just a quick update, some one else out bidded us at the last minuite on ebay for the 1.13 machine so kancept is investiagting other possibilities and the PIII 500 and 550 owners havn't got in touch with me. There is also a possibility that a friend of Kancepts, is going to donate "a speedy athlon" I'm just wiaiting for him to get in touch.
Anyway is 7:35 and I just got up to find that mozilla build had failed because I ran out of disk space so I'm going to be busy formating and repartitioning my drive today but first I'm off back to bed!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

possible tinderbox
[info]mmadia
2004-03-24 09:49 am UTC (link)
came across a dell dimension p2-450 with no ram or hd. It will support a slocket+1.1Ghz celeron (or p3), 3 sdram banks, ata33.

i've $50 to upgrade it to the 1.1 or for some ram / hard drive.

either way, i'd donate $50 to this or to whoever buys / builds a tinderbox.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: possible tinderbox
[info]z_eight_a
2004-03-24 10:01 am UTC (link)
I am still talking with Kancept, he's going to be away for a couple of weeks so we'll have to wait until then. there have been a couple of other offers which I am also folowing up, I'll keep you posted.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

update from Kancept
[info]mmadia
2004-04-01 01:55 pm UTC (link)
hot from BeShare :

2004-04-01 Kancept: "I should be able to have a dual 450 online next week. It'll have 10k SCSI drives. I'm gonna see if I can get the drives running in RAID for it. It will be done by next week, though. Would you guys rather it be bone or netserver? When I DO get back, though , I will be buying a good server."

we'll be looking into cpu upgrade possibilites as well (either slot p3 or slot1 to 370 converters)

Which netstack should it build? BONE or netserver? and make sure some messages/emails Kancept :)

Thanks Kancept!

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…