farewell to the days of having it both ways ([info]dayofjudah) wrote in [info]bad_rpers_suck,
@ 2006-12-31 09:20:00
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Flame(r)s... on the side of my face... !
Okay, seriously. Are we done now? Can we stop talking about the gay and why you don't get it?

There's nothing to get. There's nothing to understand and no need for you to understand it. If you're frustrated with the perceived lack of GOOD CLEAN HETEROSEXUAL I MEAN NON-GAY-STEREOTYPED-LOL-JAPAN-SO-HILARIOUS FUN, try this. Cover your eyes, and tap your heels together three times, saying, "Oh, I wish I knew how to look elsewhere on the fucking internet! Oh, I wish I knew how to look elsewhere on the fucking internet!"

You can also try, "Oh, I wish I wouldn't make big confused ignoramus statements with 'AMIRITE???' attached at the end that will probably stir people up for no fucking good reason other than I'm posting this on a community that has 'BAD RPERS SUCK' in the title!"

But that's kind of long.

SERIOUSLY. "SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON YAOI?" No. Please. For the love of god, no more. No more guys-watching-lesbians comparisons, no more pop psychology. I am turning aggressively asexual as we speak (or you know, type). I am hawt for budding. Would you like to RP some eldritch planarians?

90% of bad RPing has to do with the fact that probably 90% of us are socially impaired (oh do NOT even get all up in arms with me about this, it's true for the REST of the damn world too but they outnumber us and thus get to define what 'normal' social behavior entails), to differing degrees, and this isn't always helped by trying to socialize over the internet. The internet exacerbates people's tendancies to be willfully eccentric, and act in ways they would not dare act in real life (some of them dare, and that's what [info]customers_suck is for).

So that is your answer. "Man, what is the deal with ______?!" THE INTERNET. THAT IS WHAT IS THE DEAL. If we're going to use that blanket statement as a BRPS post every other fucking day, can we do Furry Week too? (I'm KIDDING. Don't yiff me. Oh god I'm kidding.)

(Post a new comment)


[info]krikkert
2006-12-31 02:30 pm UTC (link)
Oh, yes, I totally needed a revisit of this on the top of my page.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 02:34 pm UTC (link)
Technically, I should have waited until tomorrow to post this, yes. But this is for the children. The malformed mpreg children.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]clawfoot
2006-12-31 02:33 pm UTC (link)
Why is this a new post and not a comment to the post in question?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 02:35 pm UTC (link)
Because it's not, actually, a response to the most recent post, but to the attitude. Which doesn't have its own post, but if there is one, I'll be happy to post it there.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]becky_h, 2006-12-31 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clawfoot, 2006-12-31 02:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clawfoot, 2006-12-31 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clawfoot, 2006-12-31 04:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]becky_h, 2006-12-31 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clawfoot, 2006-12-31 03:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 03:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clawfoot, 2006-12-31 04:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 04:10 pm UTC

[info]bogboblin
2006-12-31 02:34 pm UTC (link)
"What's the attraction of X sort of RPing?"

is not

"What is the attraction to this X sort of RPing? I don't understand it. No-one should."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 02:37 pm UTC (link)
I agree. Usually, it is: "I don't actually care what the attraction is; I'm frustrated and unwilling to think for myself about something that has been discussed countless times, to death."

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]becky_h
2006-12-31 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Why do you like, or dislike, the color green?

It's ANNOYING to be asked and analyzed over and over and over again why someone likes something they like. There is no bad_rping, there is no fucking POINT to the damned question.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]bogboblin, 2006-12-31 03:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bogboblin, 2006-12-31 09:06 pm UTC

[info]insaint
2006-12-31 02:55 pm UTC (link)
I hope the latest post that inspired this hasn't been deleted, since now I'm curious.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 02:58 pm UTC (link)
I don't think so. But heck, it's the exact same as the other bajillion posts just like it I've seen here before. :p *facepalm*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]insaint, 2006-12-31 03:01 pm UTC

[info]derek_bliss
2006-12-31 03:33 pm UTC (link)
See, this is why I keep my minor little kerfluffle 'I don't get it' posts to the confines of my flist (where they --hopefully-- know to carry on elsewhere if I'm about to froth at the mouth over something they don't give a flying monkey about), or in my own head, where I can froth in peace and silence and not have to worry about getting my sticky, gooey, frothy germs all over everyone else's interbutt...

Well, of course, until the pressure cooker pops. Then we have a problem...and spooge. :P

(Reply to this)


[info]almightyhat
2006-12-31 03:36 pm UTC (link)
... Um, have my internet babies? Or I can have yours. They're small.

I just had to explain the same concept to a message board full of doll collectors. Yes, people think we're crazy. Yes, they're crazy too. It's the internet. One must deal.

(Only they hadn't been exposed to the kind of swearing that can happen in the blogosphere. I just. I should hang out with sheltered, middle-aged women less, or something.)

(Reply to this)


[info]koemiko
2006-12-31 04:48 pm UTC (link)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]thewaahmbulance
2006-12-31 04:50 pm UTC (link)
*runs you over?* :/?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]koemiko, 2006-12-31 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2007-01-01 04:32 am UTC

[info]supernovacaine
2006-12-31 05:16 pm UTC (link)
With the exception of the last post, most of the "WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH ALL THE GAY AROUND HERE!!!!" posts consist of a player taking a heterosexual canon character and making them queer as folk, usually at the expense of another canon heterosexual. That IS bad RPing, and without a doubt belongs here, no matter HOW many times it happens. Granted I've only been here a few months and sometimes I skim, but I haven't seen a lot of "lulz yaoi is teh ghey" posts overall.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 05:28 pm UTC (link)
The problem is when it comes to the determination of how fair the "taking a heterosexual canon character and making them queer as folk" assessment is. It starts getting into fandom dissection, the motives of RPers, the preferences of players, whether AUs are acceptable, fluid sexuality, character development, etc. etc. -- when sexual orientation can be such a small part of characterization, depending on how a player does it. If just ONE aspect of the character is what you're complaining about, it might be worth examining whether it's more of a preference issue.

I've actually been here a few ... years, sadly. But the post happens elsewhere too -- metaquotes, any old discussion group, and it's very tiring to have it discussed relentlessly, especially in a place which might benefit from simply accepting that I like A, they like B, let's try not to let the twain meet too often or at least not throw shit at each other. I mean, there AREN'T any "lulz yaoi is teh ghey" posts: people are more adept at taking a feeling like "ugh, this gay stuff is so stupid" and phrasing it in a much more socially acceptable way. I don't mean to imply they do it consciously -- it's a form of rationalization is all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]supernovacaine, 2006-12-31 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2006-12-31 06:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2006-12-31 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2006-12-31 07:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2006-12-31 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2006-12-31 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2007-01-01 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2007-01-01 04:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2007-01-01 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2007-01-01 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iwanttobeasleep, 2006-12-31 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]becky_h, 2007-01-01 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iwanttobeasleep, 2007-01-01 06:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]becky_h, 2007-01-01 12:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]becky_h, 2007-01-01 06:45 am UTC

[info]stolisomancer
2006-12-31 05:33 pm UTC (link)
I figure it's just part of the online circle of life.

Guy (or homophobic/sheltered/simply-not-in-love-with-the-gay girl) hops online ->
Guy happens to be a gamer ->
Guy discovers that people do the RP online ->
Guy decides that this online freeform RP is something he is capable of doing and Relevant To His Interests ->
Guy discovers that people who do the RP online are predominantly female ->
Guy says "...sweet" and tries to play ->
Guy discovers that roleplaying in a predominantly female environment means he's up to his eyeballs in gay sex scenes of wildly varying quality ->

At this point on the ol' Online Lifepath Chart, there's a d20 roll or something and now Other Shit Can Happen. Check it out.

1-4: Guy says to himself, "...huh," in a sort of bemused tone, accepts it as the way things work on this bold new electronic frontier, and goes on about his business, steering clear of the spurty, spurty cocks
5-6: Guy is himself gay or bisexual, and derives amusement and/or positive reinforcement from this environment
7-9: Guy is extremely open-minded and considers this a test of his writing and/or roleplaying skill
10-12: Guy eventually gets bored of the "new character shows up, new character grapples with his sexuality, new character gets a boyfriend and settles in for years and years of happily spurty activities" cycle and goes back to rolling dice, only showing back up online occasionally
13-14: Guy says to himself, "Jesus Christ, I spent my entire formative period being told I was a 'pervert' by girls because I liked to look at Playboy magazine now and again, and now I hop online and I find a massive feminine empire designated to the generation of man-on-man pornography; what the fuck is up with this" and develops a bad case of trainwreck syndrome; it may not be his thing but he cannot look away
15: Guy realizes that as he has a real penis, it is possible for him to use this environment for attention-whoring if he's willing to slide around the Kinsey scale a little bit
16: Guy attempts to steer clear of the gayness but finds he has wandered into a corner of the roleplaying Internet where he can no more avoid gay than he could, say, avoid cold weather in Alaska; eventually, this becomes frustrating
17-18: Guy runs into the shrieky meanie "yaoi is the way and the life" lunatic fringe, who are perfectly willing to interpret "I am not into yaoi" as "I wish to set fire to you, your friends, and all your works"; shit proceeds to go wrong
19: Guy quietly withdraws from the online roleplaying arena entirely
20: Roll twice on this table; if you get another 20, keep rolling

So yeah.

Thing is, there is so much gay roleplaying going on that it's faintly ridiculous; there's a really interesting sociology paper in it somewhere, about how when a bunch of girls get together to roleplay online, there's more porn involved than the average all-guy offline roleplaying group could ever imagine, and a bunch of girls roleplaying adult scenes will tend to be all about man-on-man action (written by girls so the fine details tend to be a little obscured).

Further, and somewhat problematically, we still exist within the Western sexual tradition to some extent because we're typing this in English, and the Western sexual tradition is not quite all the way "yay! homosexuality!" yet. Thus, in this incredibly spurty roleplaying environment, the aforementioned cycle will continue to perpetuate itself.

It's the cost of doing business, and yeah, some people could stand to lose a little bit of homophobia. Some other people could also stand to get a little less instantly defensive of their hobby. This, being a comm dedicated to stress-release bitching, is not exactly the place for this argument to reach an equitable conclusion.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 05:41 pm UTC (link)
...

I was JUST thinking that somewhere, somebody has this charted out. ...... Thanks?

I don't think "shut up about the gay already" is an equitable conclusion. It's more of a "everybody fucking go home, this is pointless". I fully accept that this post will happen at least 4 times a year here and 75308175832 times a year elsewhere, but having seen what I (very possibly erroneously, I know) perceive as an upsurge of such posts, -- ugh. Clue by four.

And honestly, maybe someone else can ask the posters of such questions of they feel like they've released any stress once the dust is all settled.

I do agree it's all [the buttsecks extravaganza] faintly ridiculous. I also happen to know that there is a Babysitter's Club RPG and a BDSM My Little Pony one too. It's faintly ridiculous, no argument. But there's so much else. And I wouldn't even ridicule them. Hey, I RP costumed superheroes, I'm not throwing stones.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]leavemea_lone, 2006-12-31 07:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]leavemea_lone, 2006-12-31 07:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 09:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]koemiko, 2006-12-31 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 09:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]koemiko, 2006-12-31 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphonica, 2007-01-01 05:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2007-01-01 06:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphonica, 2007-01-02 01:45 am UTC

[info]audiodrops
2006-12-31 06:10 pm UTC (link)
I can understand why people get frustrated with so much yaoi, though, and it's certainly not LOL LACKZ OF GOOD CLEAN CHRISTIAN HET TEEHEE. I know a lot of people don't get why some people would get frustrated with the overwhelming amounts of yaoi because hey, they like yaoi and so they're getting what they like so what's the big deal? because they, being inside the yaoi community, don't see if from the outside.

As well, I don't think so many posts of "Why is ____?" are "Why is ____?! OMG THAT'S GROSS WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU _______." While I realize it's frustrating to get asked "Why do you like this ____?", I don't think it warrants the amount of OMFG REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAYAYYAHDAFJLGJADL;FHJDFJHL that a lot of people throw when it comes up.

I think I might have lost my train of thought. Here's hoping this makes sense.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]iwanttobeasleep
2006-12-31 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I see where the annoyance comes from, but I think it comes off as really spoiled. The wording of this complaint aside (because it comes off as being incredibly anti-yaoi), these questions sound a lot like the OPs want the online community to cater to their wants. A lot of us have trouble finding roleplays we'll enjoy, what makes them think they're so special? You live with it, you don't come to a rant community and whine that people don't want to play with you because they enjoy different things (and before you jump, the original post might have lacked obvious whining, but it was very apparent in his comments).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 09:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 09:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iwanttobeasleep, 2006-12-31 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]audiodrops, 2006-12-31 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]audiodrops, 2006-12-31 10:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]luna_hoshino, 2006-12-31 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 11:11 pm UTC

[info]master_simon
2006-12-31 06:21 pm UTC (link)
If I end up bringing an eldritch planarian into the Sanctuary because of this, I totally blame you.

(Reply to this)


[info]cheezdanish
2006-12-31 06:55 pm UTC (link)
Haw haw I avoid this by using my pretendy funtime to schtupp a zombie.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 06:58 pm UTC (link)
... genius!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2006-12-31 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stolisomancer, 2006-12-31 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2006-12-31 07:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]_hophophop_, 2006-12-31 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2007-01-01 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bogboblin, 2006-12-31 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2007-01-01 04:31 am UTC

[info]mattybee
2006-12-31 07:43 pm UTC (link)
If you're going to direct something at me, can you at least put it in there instead of making an entirely new post?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2006-12-31 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Certainly, if I am speaking directly and only to you, I will do that. But since you're only the most recent example of an attitude I perceive as an ignorant, time-wasting trend, I'd rather have my post and then never bother saying anything again about it because "so what are you thoughts on yaoi" is the post that will never die.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mattybee, 2006-12-31 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mattybee, 2006-12-31 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2006-12-31 08:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2006-12-31 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yoritomo_reiko, 2006-12-31 11:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lowfatcheezwhiz, 2006-12-31 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yoritomo_reiko, 2007-01-01 01:46 am UTC

[info]goodconceited
2006-12-31 07:49 pm UTC (link)
I am hawt for budding. Would you like to RP some eldritch planarians?

You win. So fucking hard.

(Reply to this)


[info]neontiger
2006-12-31 08:48 pm UTC (link)
I just didn't see why the post had to be on Bad_Rpers_Suck. Asking that kind of question on a forum dedicated to venting about bad rpers makes it seem like they are implying that it is a Bad Rpers trait.

Adding that they can only play heterosexual males and were rejected from an RP for not playing yaoi doesn't really help at all, as it also implies that it's not an honest question out of wanting to know but more venting against being wronged by a group. Sort of like asking "Why do I even try?" or "Why do I even hang out with these people?" or "Why do I do anything for you?"

They're loaded questions that don't really mean to be answered.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]mattybee
2006-12-31 09:06 pm UTC (link)
The post was on bad_rpers_suck not because I'm saying it's bad RP. It's one of the few RP communities I happen to be subscribed to and know people on, and I've seen other questions asked here before.

If you're going to assume I'm making it a trait of bad RPers, you can feel free and do that, but then you either...

a) Didn't read all the posts/comments I made there in addition to the initial post
b) Are misinterpreting what I said.

It wasn't a loaded question. I want to know what the appeal is, to the point at which I get rejected because I don't want to do it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2006-12-31 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]neontiger, 2007-01-01 03:33 am UTC

[info]saevard
2006-12-31 10:46 pm UTC (link)
Yiff.

(Reply to this)


[info]paperclipchains
2007-01-01 01:37 am UTC (link)
SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET IS A HAPPY PARADISE OF FANDOM FOR EVERY GROUP EVERY COMPLETELY UNTAINTED BY BAD PEOPLE

IF YOU CAN'T FIND IT YOU ARE NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH

LOOK HARDER DAMMIT

STOP RAGGING ON MY PORN IT IS SPECIAL AND YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]dayofjudah
2007-01-01 01:44 am UTC (link)
Ye-es. That is ... a clever and succinct summary of my post. I am also honored you added your own stuff in (happy paradise, etc). And I emphasize that my porn is eldritch planarian splitsecks, so it is very likely that you do not in fact understand it, but I wouldn't care if you ragged on it unless you ragged on it every day for a few months without appearing to learn anything from each experience. Hmm! I'm glad this exchange started out on such a civil note.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]paperclipchains, 2007-01-01 01:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dayofjudah, 2007-01-01 02:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paperclipchains, 2007-01-01 02:58 am UTC

[info]hauntermooneyes
2007-01-01 06:43 am UTC (link)
STFU ABOUT IT, FOR GODS' SAKE.

(Reply to this)

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