JΛCK ([info]cest_lui) wrote in [info]aynrandforum,
@ 2008-02-27 14:34:00
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first book?
Hi. I'm interested in Ayn Rand's ideas, and I got Atlas Shrugged and tried to read it, but I found it too dry and the book so intimidatingly long. I'm wondering if there are any other smaller books or pamphlets which she wrote that explain her philosophy and way of life, that you could reccomend to a busy college student who doesn't have time to read 1000+ pages of a giant novel? :)

Peace and thanks!

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[info]ubermensch
2008-02-27 07:48 pm UTC (link)
you might want to check out 'philosophy: who needs it', 'the virtue of selfishness' and 'capitalism: the unknown ideal' -- these books are all very succinct, compiled mainly from essays and editorials by her

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[info]palmtreefreak26
2008-02-27 07:50 pm UTC (link)
I'd recommend "We the Living" or "The Early Ayn Rand."

http://www.amazon.com/We-Living-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451187849/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204141647&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Early-Ayn-Rand-Selection-Unpublished/dp/045121465X/ref=pd_sim_b_img_13

Definitely give "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead" another try though. Once you get past the first 100 pages or so, they just draw you in.

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[info]confusinated
2008-02-27 07:51 pm UTC (link)
The Anthem is about a hundred pages....you might try that one

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[info]the_narfer
2008-02-27 07:53 pm UTC (link)
I love Anthem (a novella), which is a beautiful portrayal of her sense of life and you can read it in a few hours.

I would definitely recommend 'The Virtue of Selfishness' (don't be put off by the title); this book was my saviour when I read it aged-22.

You may then wish to progress onto 'Capitalism the Unknown Ideal' and 'For the New Intellectual'.

Also, check out:

The Atlas Society http://www.objectivistcenter.org/

and the Ayn Rand Institute http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=index

These two websites will have a summary of Ayn Rand's philosophy.

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[info]cest_lui
2008-02-27 08:04 pm UTC (link)
I'm 23...how old are you now, if you don't mind me asking? My religion professors, all of whom are discouraging me from reading Ayn Rand, say that nobody over 30 seriously follows her ideas except Leonard Peikoff.

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[info]the_narfer
2008-02-27 08:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm 34 and I know LOTS of people aged over 30 who are still passionate about her ideas.

It's tough thinking for yourself when other people are so against it, but it's worth it. I suggest looking for contemporaries who are also interested in Ayn Rand; that way you can learn and share ideas with them, and you won't feel so isolated.

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[info]russj
2008-02-27 09:29 pm UTC (link)
Anthem is also in the public domain--get it free online from the Gutenberg project.

Since Ayn Rand was athiest, it's natural that religion profs will say to avoid her works. I agree with her political views, but do not accept all of her ideas.

I also enjoy the objectivist writer, Robert James Bidinotto.
You can read his stuff here: http://econot.com/

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[info]kali_kali
2008-02-27 11:59 pm UTC (link)
Since Ayn Rand was athiest, it's natural that religion profs will say to avoid her works.

Just because someone teaches about religion doesn't mean they believe it (my best Religious Studies teacher was a secular humanist). A Religious Studies program is not a theological program, or an indoctrination program no more than a history course.

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[info]tppyouthcrew
2008-02-27 09:30 pm UTC (link)
religion professors have a lot to lose from Ayn Rand's ideas. That's why they discourage you. Examples of people who follow her ideas: Libertarian philosophy is almost completely plagiarized from Ayn Rand, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, I've heard that Jim Carrey does, the band Rush, and the fact that a movie of Atlas Shrugged is in production. I would say that Anthem is a good start(2112 by rush is basically the same). try "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" too. That's really the building point of philosophy(since Metaphysics is axiomatic).

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[info]cest_lui
2008-02-27 09:45 pm UTC (link)
It's my major (religious studies) and I'm a third year student so it's too late to change and I just discovered Ayn Rand. It sucks.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-02-27 10:53 pm UTC (link)
There's plenty of value that even an atheist could get out of a good education in religious studies!

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[info]kali_kali
2008-02-28 12:00 am UTC (link)
I've been an atheist since the age of about 15 or so, and I graduated from a Classics&Religion program last year ;) Just because you're not religious (or if you are, that doesn't mean you should change because of what some philosopher thinks) doesn't mean that a program about religion doesn't have value.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-02-28 02:01 am UTC (link)
Allow me to extend a huzzah, high-five, +1, props, whichever variant on "I agree" pleases you the most.

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[info]hypathos
2008-02-28 04:21 am UTC (link)
I have a minor in biblical studies and I'm an atheist. Don't fret it too much. I think of it more as a "know your enemy" type of thing.

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[info]anruinouindo
2008-04-30 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Don't let a silly thing like what your professor's have to say discourage you from pursuing an idea you find appealing; I'm 21 and I'm extremely passionate about Rand's ideas. So much of what she has to say just makes sense.

Seriously, give Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead another try; the former of the two recently gave me the incentive and self-awareness to help me start turning my life around.

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[info]philoblogger
2008-09-21 12:27 am UTC (link)
Your religion professors are either clueless or flat out lying to you. There are two Objectivist philosophers at the University of Pittsburg, one of the top philosophy programs in the world. There are also Objectivists at University of Texas and Oxford. World famous non-Objectivist philosophers like Peter Railton and Geoffry Sayre-McCord take her seriously. Objectivist professors have taught at Princeton and Brown, also. Not an exhaustive list of Objectivist and Objecti-friends at top universities, btw.

And the fact that your professors are discouraging you from reading her is revealing. Isn't a good teacher supposed to encourage his student to explore the world of ideas, even if they disagree with those ideas?

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[info]raistlinknight
2008-02-27 09:03 pm UTC (link)
Read The Fountainhead; by comparison, Atlas Shrugged is overly long and boring. I just think The Fountainhead is much better written overall.

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[info]_smammy
2008-02-27 09:22 pm UTC (link)
I'd suggest Anthem, her novella. You don't even have to buy it. Atlas Shrugged deals with more details and has a larger scope than any of her other works, so don't feel bad about not being able to jump right into it. I was, but probably only because I've had the primer versions with Anthem and The Fountainhead.

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[info]rinku
2008-02-27 09:25 pm UTC (link)
If the problem is just its length, I suggest learning how to read long novels by reading the 2170 page Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

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[info]boffo
2008-02-27 09:26 pm UTC (link)
If you want a straight-forward introduction to her philosophy, try For the New Intellectual. It's basically the 150 pages worth of explicit philosophical arguments from Atlas Shrugged, without the 850 pages of story.

If you're more interested in a story, you could try Anthem. Just be aware that her longer books are much much better, both from a literary and philosophical perspective.

If you're enjoying the story of Atlas Shrugged but getting bogged down on the philosophy treatises, feel free to skip all the speeches and such. There's nothing in the speeches that isn't also made clear by the story. If you're excited by her ideas, it's easy enough to go back after finishing the story to see them laid out more formally.

I'd stay away from We The Living and The Early Ayn Rand. She grew and developed her philosophy after writing those, especially with respect to sense of life, so they aren't very good as introductions.

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[info]spettro280
2008-02-27 11:35 pm UTC (link)
I'll second this. I found "For the New Intellectual" to be concise and straightforward about her philosophy.

I read the Fountainhead first, and having discovered the philosophical similarities between her characters and myself, delved head-first into Atlas Shrugged. I've read it religiously since I was a teenager, and with each reading, I pick up on more and more of the parts that confused me when I was younger, so don't give up. The characters themselves present her philosophy through the story, so as the previous poster said, if you have to skip the long speeches, do so.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-02-27 09:51 pm UTC (link)
Get one of those compendiums such as "Basic Writings of Aristotle" and get to work. Collectively, it's maybe as large as Atlas Shrugged, but you can read the individual parts on their own, the Ethics, the Poetics, etc. one at a time to make it less of a labour.

I'm not being flippant either; basically the whole of Objectivism can be found there.

After you know Aristotle, add in the "hype" component from the aphorisms of Nietzsche; I'd recommend "The Antichrist: Revaluation of All Values".

No real disrespect to Ayn Rand, but Objectivism, to those who are really studied in philosophical history, is pretty much a piecemeal sort of a thing.

--

If you want the shortest possible answer, though, this comes from Rand herself:

"Metaphysics - "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" or "Wishing won't make it so." (Objective Reality)
Epistemology - "You can't have your cake and eat it too." (Reason)
Ethics - "Man is an end in himself." (Self-Interest)
Politics - "Give me liberty or give me death." (Capitalism)"

In other words; reality is what it is independent of the wishes and subjective perceptions of man. The best way to perceive that reality is by the use of the faculty of reason. The best way to behave is in a way that furthers one's own interests without initiating force on others. The best system of government is that which concerns itself solely with defending rights and allows for a completely free market.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-02-27 09:53 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and just to note, the views in that last paragraph are my interpretation of Rand's; they're no longer my own views necessarily.

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[info]aspire2be
2008-02-28 08:29 am UTC (link)
I would actually suggest that Ayn Rand probably isn't for you if you found it to be dry. Many people, myself included, like her for much more than her philosophy. I love her writing style more than anyone else's, and I find it to be captivating. I savored Atlas Shrugged like a multi-month, multi-course meal.

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