Autumn Dandelion ([info]autumndandelion) wrote in [info]autism,
@ 2004-12-04 04:53:00
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Discrimination At The Bank
Today, my co-worker and I went with one of the men from the residence to help him create an account with BankNorth. For the sake of his privacy, I'll call him Jay. Between the unfamiliar setting and people staring at him and having to wait and sit in a chair and face bankers, Jay started moaning. He escalated the longer he was there. He held a hand to the side of his face as he growled and bit the collar of his shirt. Meanwhile, his face turned shades of pink and red. My co-worker kept telling him firmly to stop. Jay complied initially, but would start up with the moaning again shortly thereafter. Then the biting and growling would also return.

The bankers behind the counter told my co-worker that Jay couldn't set up an account without a co-signer. We argued with them, but they insisted. I guess I shouldn't be surprised how this branch of BankNorth behaves; I've encountered this before when they refused to allow a female resident to open an account without her social security card but let her roommate do so without hers. From my spot in line, I made a remark about their policies changing all the time.

"It's not a new policy," one of the bankers replied. Apparently, they didn't note my sarcasm.

Jay is 22 years old, he's an adult, and he can sign his own name independently. Have you ever heard of an adult needing a co-signer on a bank account? Doesn't make a shred of sense to me. So, of course, I had to write to them:



I am writing to you in regards to the unethical business practices that have taken place at your branch in the Hannaford Supermarket on Drum Hill in Chelmsford, Massachusetts. Two weeks ago, I visited that branch with an autistic, nonverbal 22-year-old woman to assist her in setting up an account. Just the week before, her roommate created an account with a photo ID, her social security number, and $29; however, this woman was denied an account because she did not have her social security card with her and was also told she needed at least $100 to start an account. The next day, she and I went to another branch in Tewksbury, where we were allowed to set up an account without the card. In fact, while her roommate was required to bring the balance up to $100 within the first month, this woman was told she would not be fined for not maintaining that minimum. I questioned the fact that different policies were presented to each of these women at the same bank and branch, but I gave Bank North the benefit of the doubt. I considered that perhaps these occurances were mainly a fluke in procedure.

After what happened today, I have a hard time viewing a now triple standards as sheerly coincidental. This evening, another resident was denied a bank account at the Bank North branch within the Hannaford grocery store. The individual who wanted to set up an account is also 22 years old and autistic, but while the two women require hand-over-hand assistance to sign their names, this man can independently pen his signature. Yet he was told by Bank North employee Beth that he could not open his own account without having a co-signer. This policy was not required of the two individuals I've assisted in the recent past, and it is definitely not required of the general population. What happened this evening is nothing short of discrimination.

Because of these incidents, this man will open an account with another bank - one that will allow him to have his own account. The other residents who do not have accounts as of yet will likely follow suit.

I felt that it was important to bring these matters to the attention of Bank North. Discriminatory behaviour not only hurts your business; more importantly, it hurts these folks who deserve to be treated fairly and with dignity. I am asking that something be done to bring this errant branch in line with ethical procedures as soon as possible.



I wish there were something else I could do besides write a letter that would actually stop this discrimination. It just isn't right!

~ deej



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[info]cheesecakerocks
2004-12-04 03:13 pm UTC (link)
Good for you writing that letter. That's terrible. Depending on the response you get back from the bank, maybe there is someone you can forward that letter to?

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[info]james968
2004-12-04 03:27 pm UTC (link)
A couple of things:
• You might try checking and seeing if their actions violate the American's with Disability Act.

• You may want to call one of the banks main offices and ask to setup an appointment with the one of the Customer Relations VP. (Probably wont get it, but will get to talk to an assistant or someone who will be able to get something done). You might want to explain that you work with a group residence and several of your clients have had problems setting up accounts and you would like to discuss the situation with them. (You might also want to says that BankNorth is convenient for your clients and you would like to try and resolve these issues, so that your current and future clients do not have to cease using BN).

• Write a letter to THIS guy (you might want to stress finding a solution):

Banknorth Massachusetts
370 Main Street
Worcester, MA 01608

Christopher W. Bramley, President

(It will probably get handed off to an assistant, but when an assistant from the President's Office calls about a problem,it usually gets fixed)

• Talk to the agency in Massachusets that handles banks and also the state agency which advocates for the disabled.

• Visit http://clarkhoward.com/ or some other consumer protection reporter and ask for their advice. (There is an email form on his web page on the left hand side you can fill in).

Hope this helps.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:46 am UTC (link)
Thanks for all the suggestions! Because my work week runs from Tuesday through Saturday, I now have a couple days off to look into this matter further. I really appreciate all your help!

= D

~ deej

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[info]messyfairy
2004-12-04 05:37 pm UTC (link)
do update us if when you get a response fr the bank pls or whatever that happens next.
and good on ya! the world need more people like you =)

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:44 am UTC (link)
I'll definitely update if I hear anything back from them. And I appreciate the compliment!

= D

~ deej

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[info]slobbergal
2004-12-04 07:38 pm UTC (link)
legally if they are not declared incompetent they are supposed to have any and all rights that any other person has. I question that there even is a policy written to address the situation. I bet it's just a verbal command handed down from the supervisors for liability reasons or something. Definately not legal.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:48 am UTC (link)
It's ridiculous. All the individuals I work with have jobs and get weekly paychecks. This man who was denied an account is quite competent. He may need assistance in living independently, but he's independent nonetheless. These bankers told us his mother needed to co-sign for his account. Doesn't make a shred of sense!

~ deej

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[info]slobbergal
2004-12-05 08:36 pm UTC (link)
it is ridiculous. I used to work as a social worker with adult clients with mental retardation (IQ less than 70) and even with low iqs they have the rights just like anyone else. But they are treated so unfairly. I had one client with an iq less than 70 that held a full time job, drove a car, and basically lived totally independently but when he went to try to do some things everyone else did, he was stared at and denied. IT was awful how he was treated. (and illegal)

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 10:55 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad that this type of behaviour has been made illegal through the ADA. I just hope there turns out to be a way to enforce this act and to correct violations. People can be so close-minded and self-centred.

~ deej

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[info]alwaysamom
2004-12-04 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Try going to Planet Feedback and forwarding the letter through them, as not only does it get into more places, but you have a public forum where this is seen, and others are made aware of their *double/triple policies. I did a general search, but the bank isnt listed, but you can still fill out a letter and the places to send it. :-D

I have had to use it several times for a few agencies and you would be amazed at how quickly I received a response as well as a resolution to the matters.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:50 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the suggestion! I think I'm going to rework this letter first, and send it out to a few of the places another poster suggested. For instance, I should look into the specifics behind the Americans with Disabilities Act and see if there's anything I could site. Then I'll post it to Planet Feedback.

~ deej

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[info]im_a_shark
2004-12-04 09:20 pm UTC (link)
Sounds to me like this bank is very dicriminatory. If it's not against the law it should be! I feel so badly for your residents because it is horrible to be treated like that!

I hope you hear back from this bank and I'd love to see how they try to make it look like they aren't at fault.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:52 am UTC (link)
It is definitely horrible they're treated like this! You have to wonder if he has a sixth sense of sorts and knew, before those bankers said a word, that they were going to treat him like he's inferiour to them.

~ deej

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[info]carabear133
2004-12-04 09:46 pm UTC (link)
This is infuriating. I'm so glad you wrote them a letter, please please update when anything new happends. I'm really interested

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:55 am UTC (link)
I will most certainly update if I hear anything from them. I really hope BankNorth is as disgusted as we are when they find out what this branch is doing and sanctions the individuals involved in these acts of discrimination. The other branch I went to treated another resident with a great deal of respect, so fortunately the problem isn't spread across all the banks.

~ deej

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[info]chasy_chan
2004-12-04 11:18 pm UTC (link)
That horrible >.<
I wish I could understand why things like that have to happen..
*Shakes her head*
I think it's great that you wrote the letter, though! I hope something positive comes out with that :)

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 06:56 am UTC (link)
I do too. In fact, folks here have offered suggestions where I can take further action, and hopefully increase the chance of something positive taking place.

~ deej

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[info]chasy_chan
2004-12-05 01:34 am UTC (link)
BTW..
You mentioned Jay biting at the collar of his shirt..
My little brother does that all the time, but he literally chew holes in the collars and sleeves of his shirts..
Do you see that often?

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 07:11 am UTC (link)
Jay chews holes in the collars of his shirts quite frequently - and it's always the collars. He bites when he's aggitated. When he's biting his collar, he's actually using a great deal of self-restraint. It's his way of telling people that he's getting angry or upset or overwhelmed, and he either wants assurance or to be left alone.

He and the others moved into their new home four months ago. It was a major change in their lives, as graduating from school and striking out on your own is for anybody. Throughout the first month, Jay struggled a great deal. Although he hadn't done so in over two years, he began biting people. He bit my hand during the first month. He wasn't used to me, and I was asking him to sweep the floor in the kitchen as that was his chore for the day. Now, we're more comfortable with one another, and I feel that we respect one another. He has really taken a shining to one of my co-workers - actually, the one who went to the bank with him yesterday.

I can't remember the last time Jay bit somebody; it's been quite some time. He still bites his shirts though. We haven't worked on finding another way for him to express his distress. Maybe that's something he can work on some time further along the line. For now, his shirts are all chewed up. A couple of them look like V-necks, he's torn them with his teeth so much. Most of them are missing buttons along the top half.

~ deej

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[info]pixieforu
2004-12-05 01:40 am UTC (link)
http://www.autism-society.org/
look for your chapter and they will probably help with writing the bank also.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-05 07:11 am UTC (link)
Thanks! I'll check it out!

~ deej

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[info]wakasplat
2004-12-09 09:09 am UTC (link)
They definitely should not be allowed to discriminate basically based on his appearance, as it sounds like they did. I don't think I remember yet having someone flat-out refuse to take my signature, but I've had many people attempt first to get someone else's until that person firmly told them that I could write.

I'm also reacting to something else in your post, though, and please don't take this the wrong way:

If you were getting more emotional about something (say in a fight with a boyfriend or girlfriend), would you like to be described as "escalating"? I know it sounds minor, but it reminds me of the Mayer Shevin poem "The Language of Us and Them" and also of having staff peering over my shoulder making my behavior sound clinical/pathological all the time.

Which is the other thing — he didn't sound like he was hurting anyone, and if I were doing what he was doing in public, I would not want my staff to tell me to stop. In fact if my staff kept insisting on telling me to stop and did not accept my explanations for why correcting this kind of behavior in public was unacceptable to me, I would probably have to consider firing that staff person. (In fact I've had to do that to one or two who did insist on doing that kind of thing.)

I'm not expecting you to know these things (I know that this is probably how you're trained and/or socialized to do your job), but think if you were in his position how you'd want to be talked about and talked to.

I'm not trying to distract things from the main issue at hand or to put you down, but I wanted to comment because those two things leapt out at me before the bank's discriminatory actions did, and might still be ongoing issues after the bank's discriminatory actions are over.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-09 09:34 am UTC (link)
This is actually my first job within human services, and until four months ago, I had never really known an autistic individual personally. So, I guess as far as where I picked up the language, it has to do with the quirky way I write things. I wasn't being too clear, and you're right, it doesn't sound good now that I'm looking it over. I do use the term "de-escalating" a great deal, however - when talking about myself as well as others. So I guess I didn't consider how negative using the opposite word would sound. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have used the word "escalating". That was disrespectful toward this man. Rather, I should have said he was getting more upset. It was pretty obvious he was uncomfortable in the situation.

BTW, nobody tells him to stop when he's moaning. As you pointed out, it's not hurting anyone. Sometimes, in fact, he seems to like doing it as he'll sit alone and will look very relaxed while doing so. What my co-worker was asking him to stop doing was biting his shirt and really getting worked up to the point that his face was turning colours. That's not good for anybody.

I really appreciate your insights. As I mentioned, I am incredibly new to working with autistic individuals, and know that I must come off as fairly daft at times. I'm picking up more and more every day, and your comments have helped me learn a bit faster in regard to my language. I will be more cautious in the words that I choose.

~ deej

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[info]wakasplat
2004-12-09 11:43 am UTC (link)
I actually basically won't let anyone tell me "stop it" unless I'm doing something that actually harms other people. One big reason for this (aside from the fact that I don't enjoy having my behavior corrected like a child) is that all the weird things I might be doing, up to and including hitting or biting myself, are outlets for energy that might otherwise go into hitting other people. With my current staff, we've reached an agreement where basically even throwing or knocking over objects is fine as long as I'm not destroying other people's property or invading people's space. (That was actually where she drew the line, much further out than I would have expected.) I don't know if I turn colors or not because I can't see myself, but I do know that biting my shirt or hand are things I do and I would not want those corrected in public but rather seen as fairly useful ways of diverting overload-energy. (A big danger for me in correcting them is that that energy can then explode outward toward whoever is trying to correct me.)

Or I'd at least want to reach some kind of agreement first. It's sometimes okay for someone to tell me "Don't do that" with things like that, but they have to know me pretty well to know when that is. Much of the time I actually prefer them to run interference for me on the people around me so that they don't intervene. (For instance if I'm banging my head, I prefer they keep other people from intervening while explaining calmly that it's just something I do and not anything to be alarmed about. I also don't like a lot of attention (or accusations of wanting attention) drawn to me during those times, so I like it when people are totally casual about it.)

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-09 05:32 pm UTC (link)
Right now, "Jay" (as I've been calling him here to protect his identity) looks like he got beat up. Tuesday evening, he had a reddish area over his eye where it looked like he had rubbed it raw. Yesterday, he had a bruise on his cheekbone and a gash under his nose. So, while I'll definitely say something if he's hurting someone else, I'm going to say something to him if he's hurting himself too. I'm glad that he looks for nondestructive ways of dealing with his upset, (for instance, I'm proud of him when he bites his shirt, because I know he's stopping himself from biting somebody else - that shows a great deal of restraint on his part). But hurting himself is not the answer. I talk to my friends when I think something they're doing is dangerous to myself. I love this man - I love all the folks I work with. So I'm going to continue to help Jay find better ways of channeling anger or depression that don't include physical assault on himself.

BTW, the co-worker who asked Jay to stop has a very close relationship with Jay. They respect one another, they pal around, Jay comes to this co-worker for company and tickles. I don't connect with Jay the same way my co-worker does, (as everyone connects to various people in unique ways; I happen to be closer to a couple other individuals in the house). So I'm not going to simply tell him to stop or whatnot.

Something else I should let you know - I have nonverbal learning disability, so while I have a great fondness for words and using a large vocabulary and writing a great deal, sometimes I feel my words get in the way. I've been told that sometimes, my trying to discuss a situation comes off as my being overly defensive. I wanted to let you know right-out that I'm not upset or angry by any of this. I welcome your insights.

~ deej

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[info]wakasplat
2004-12-09 06:05 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad you wouldn't necessarily tell him to stop: It's only people I can trust who can generally get away with that, not necessarily every person who happens to work for me. I would expect a friend to say something if I was hitting myself (and I even have had a few who can get away with grabbing my arm), but from staff it's different, it can feel punitive and controlling, like you're being punished for "inappropriate behaviors" rather than someone who's genuinely concerned about you. (Especially if they start handing out pills or tackle you for it.) Right now I have a staff person who's also a friend, which means she can get away with more. (The person who worked for me before her, whom I got along with pretty well, was shocked when the current person could touch me when I was doing things.) I think part of the reason she could get away with more faster was because she's been a "client" herself and knows what it feels like to be dehumanized by staff, so she doesn't do much of that, even the unintentional stuff that staff don't notice they're doing.

For me I don't at all want to hurt myself or think it's an answer, but it's also something that has been used to substantially restrict my freedom in the past. (Read: A whole pattern where first they started restraining me, and if I fought back they'd do it more, until eventually I had straps all over my body and a pair of socks taped over my hands.) So the ability to be the one in control when it's happening is really important to me, and to a lot of people who've been in the system for awhile and experienced aversives or restraints or other extreme measures of control at some point in relation to this.

And I'm also rather glad that you're up-front about that other stuff, because to a lot of people I come across angry (whether I really am or not) both in my facial expressions and my wording.

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[info]autumndandelion
2004-12-09 06:26 pm UTC (link)
While I was unemployed for a year, I interviewed at the Judge Rotenburg Centre. I didn't know much about them - and really, very little about autism - before I visited their site. But, while I was there, I saw three people being restrained at the same time in the same room. I was absolutely floored. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't get over that things like that - or what you described above about getting all strapped up - even happen at all. It's downright wrong that you had to go through something like that. I hope legislation like the ADA will be enforced to the extent that garbage like is done away with.

So it sounds like we both know what it's like to have folks falsely assume that you're angry or defensive when you're not. I actually got fired from an internship over something as ridiculous as that. I wish people would just ask instead of drawing conclusions in silence.

~ deej

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[info]wakasplat
2004-12-19 05:28 am UTC (link)
The JRC is infamous among autistic people. And yet because of things masquerading as "parental choice" (i.e. "we are too afraid to take a stand even on abuse") the Autism Society of America still allows JRC's booths at their conferences. Many autistic people are trying to get this changed because the thought of anyone going through what is done there is horrific to most of us (including those of us who have been through similar things).

With the fact things like that happen at all, I talked to my brother and he said most people want to believe the system is there to help and that despite knowing what happened to me he struggled for years before he could accept it as part of reality. Unfortunately it's not only reality but common, most places I see have some degree of that no matter how much I wish they didn't. :-( I have not been able to ignore it because it has been shoved in my face from what has happened to me and other "clients" I have known and is still happening to some people I know (and being tied down is the least of it), but a lot of people I think are able to pretend it doesn't happen and then nothing is done. :-/

Reminds me of a quote I read: "If the rationale of institutional care and rehabilitation was ever viable, the reality of abuse and neglect suggests that only the social control function -- the ridding of society of its unwanted members -- was maintained. The pretense of care and rehabilitation served primarily only to ease the conscience of a society that was occasionally discomforted by fleeting glimpsers into the harsh realities of institutional life." That is a quote by Dick Sobsey who is an educational psychologist, father of a man with severe developmental disabilities, and a tireless researcher into abuse and neglect of disabled people. He wrote a book called Violence and Abuse in the Lives of People with Disabilities: The End of Silent Acceptance? and unfortunately most of the book is still applicable today. It might be worth reading. (If you are staff I would also very highly recommend reading Dave Hingsburger.)

I am glad about the false assumptions thing being known to you because it is easier to communicate with someone when I know the assumption isn't being made. Less scary.

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