More cheese than cheese.com ([info]uran) wrote in [info]asperger,
@ 2004-10-04 13:05:00
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For all the self-diagnosed people, here's a new word for you to ponder.


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[info]literalgirl
2004-10-03 08:19 pm UTC (link)
But if a person is self-diagnosed, how are they "seeking" un-needed treatment? NO one would treat someone for an ASD without pperforming an evaluation...

Or, I guess what I am saying is that, if I self-diagnose, and then I go try to get attention from my GP by claiming said dx, if the GP accomodates such desires by providing treatment without first confirming the dx, who is at fault?

Another excellent reason to actually get a dx. I'll add this to my list. :-)

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Bottom Line
[info]staircase_wit
2004-10-04 12:13 am UTC (link)
OK, this is for people with Internet Explorer, although I would theorize other browser's would have similar commands.

Go to the page in question: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=qw1096798141319B635

Press and hold down the CTRL key while pressing the letter F.

A dialog box will pop up. Type in the term "autism" and press the ENTER key. A little box will pop up announcing the word is not found anywhere on the page. Press ENTER again to remove the little warning box. Erase "autism" and type in "Asperger." Again, the little box will pop up. If you press ESC twice, you can get back to the page in question.

That being said, THIS IS A VERY TIMELY AND IMPORTANT ARTICLE FOR THOSE IN THE AUTISM COMMUNITY. No, I am not kidding here. Uran MISSED THE POINT, but fortunately I'm too smart for that.

Here's WHY it's relevant, and it has NOTHING to do with self-diagnosis.

It has to do with parents of autistic children performing dangerous "cures" and "treatments" for autism, things that they may have heard about from forums or websites run by shady organizations like "Defeat Autism Now!" My ex-friend kept sending me over and over and over again links to www.autism.com/ari, for example.

I would put more faith in that Immortality Ring then I would in most of the shitty "therapies" out there.

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Freezing/killing of post
[info]uran
2004-10-04 09:38 am UTC (link)
Hey, could you please delete the original post? Since I left this afternoon, the only way to delete it would be to rejoin the community and it now seems to be closed to the general public. 130 emails to my inbox from the replies to this thread, my email account seems to be having a small heart attack.

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[info]drworm
2004-10-03 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Ah, nothing like a little self-doubt to make the world seem even more confusing.

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[info]latenightparty
2004-10-03 09:32 pm UTC (link)
I second that! I've got enough damned self-doubt already.

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[info]uran
2004-10-03 10:27 pm UTC (link)
If the doctor says you've got it, that's one thing. Just popping up to say, 'me me me! I have this, i saw it online!' is something else.

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[info]moggymania
2004-10-03 10:40 pm UTC (link)
"If the doctor says you've got it, that's one thing. Just popping up to say, 'me me me! I have this, i saw it online!' is something else."

No. When it comes to autism, self-dx is a fairly sure bet, generally *more* accurate than randomly asking doctors that might not know jack about the spectrum. (I've gotten all kinds of ignorant comments about autism from psychiatrists, as have other fully-dx'ed auties I know.)

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[info]drworm
2004-10-03 10:50 pm UTC (link)
That's technically true. Not that you elaborate on what "one thing" and "something else" mean, but in the name of skepticism, all right.

Still, if the alternative is going to be anti-psychotic drugs and being yelled at for the rest of my life, I know I'd really like every angle to be taken into consideration.

Hell, I didn't initially learn about any of this on line anyway. Guess that means I'm just a plain old boring hypochondriac.

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[info]uran
2004-10-03 11:06 pm UTC (link)
The article does talk about people who fake their symptoms, not people who actually have it.

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(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-03 11:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 12:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:31 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 06:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 06:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:24 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:54 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 01:20 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 12:12 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-03 11:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:44 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-03 11:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 12:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 06:43 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 06:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]_nikki, 2004-10-04 02:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 06:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]_nikki, 2004-10-04 05:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 06:54 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 12:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:09 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 01:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:34 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-04 09:09 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 09:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-04 10:10 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 09:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-05 09:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-05 09:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 09:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:29 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]staircase_wit
2004-10-04 12:19 am UTC (link)
Look, just because antipsychotic drugs could KILL YOU if you're autistic doesn't mean that you should question your taking them.

Think about it. You're what? 20? 30? 40? 50?

Either way, your doctor spent A FEW YEARS in medical school, and a few minutes... maybe even an entire hour... with your initial diagnosis. Meanwhile, you've only known yourself your ENTIRE LIFE. Obviously, years of training and a one-hour diagnosis is far superior to a lifetime of personal experience and a handful of books and websites on autism.

The worst of it is all those people who take the AQ test. This test is not only ONLINE, it's in an online issue of a fucking MAGAZINE, for god's sake. Who the hell would trust a test designed by one of the acknowledged top experts on Autism and Asperger's Syndrome, and the head of Cambridge's school of neuropsychology? DAMNED FOOLS, that's who! Cyberchondriacs, the lot of them.

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[info]moggymania
2004-10-03 09:19 pm UTC (link)
It's fairly widely known that at least one internationally-respected expert (Tony Attwood, iirc) has openly stated flat-out that about 99% of people that self-diagnose as being on the autistic spectrum are correct. I believe that Baron-Cohen and Wing have echoed similar sentiments as well.

It's not like it's easy to mix up Autism from the inside with something else. People aren't exactly likely to read all about what it's like to be autistic from the inside -- synaesthesia, Irlen Syndrome, CAPD, overload, meltdowns, and so forth -- and *incorrectly* identify with them. That just wouldn't make any sense.

So no, somebody self-diagnosing as being autistic is almost certainly *not* a "cyberchondriac".

I for one would certainly appreciate it if you'd take your trolling elsewhere. We get enough of that crap from uneducated NTs in real life, without having to get it in groups designed for our kind online as well.

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[info]uran
2004-10-03 10:31 pm UTC (link)
I made no accusations, I just said it was something to ponder, i found it interesting and not just from the rash of the self-diagnosed aspies around here. I guess it made you a little insecure as you've started throwing insults. Good for you.

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[info]moggymania
2004-10-03 10:38 pm UTC (link)
*snork* Nope, I'm not insecure. I've been diagnosed most of my life, and had that confirmed repeatedly.

I do consider it trolling to go onto a community for people with a disability and indirectly accuse those that haven't secured a dx yet of misdiagnosing themselves. It doesn't do anybody good, and it *does* do others harm.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]uran
2004-10-03 10:40 pm UTC (link)
I've got my diagnosis, I hate it. Not because of how it affects my life so much, but the reputation of the condition as being a crybaby ailment which gets claimed by anyone these days.

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(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 10:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:03 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-03 11:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:31 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-03 11:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-03 11:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:12 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:28 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:33 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:51 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-04 09:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 09:33 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-04 10:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:18 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:12 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loralienasa, 2004-10-04 09:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 12:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:21 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:54 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 01:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 01:31 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:49 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 12:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:53 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:43 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-03 11:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 12:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:26 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 01:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:20 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 12:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moggymania, 2004-10-04 01:18 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-04 01:14 am UTC (Expand)

[info]stingmeyer
2004-10-03 09:45 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm, I'm a self-diagnosed person. Interesting article. So, maybe I'm not really a person after all? A Martian perhaps? Or maybe particularly big gnat? This agonizing uncertainty is going to keep me up all night...

O~

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[info]uran
2004-10-03 10:34 pm UTC (link)
No idea - have you got a picture online somewhere? You might be a fluffy lemur!

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[info]arquel
2004-10-03 11:15 pm UTC (link)
Well, you're -obviously- some sort of small, stuffed stingray toy. I mean, I can see it plainly!

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[info]uran
2004-10-03 11:21 pm UTC (link)
I'm not the only one who can see the fluffy goodness then, yay!

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[info]stingmeyer
2004-10-03 11:39 pm UTC (link)
Some sort of small stuffed stingray toy? Hmmm, that would explain a lot. Like why I'm so clumsy when trying to use this *&$% computer keyboard... I wonder where I can get an official diagnosis for being a small stuffed stingray toy?

O~
Raymond Stingmeyer III

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(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-03 11:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]staircase_wit, 2004-10-03 11:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 12:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]conuly, 2004-10-04 06:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 06:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 12:20 am UTC (Expand)

[info]callmeemma
2004-10-04 01:50 am UTC (link)
Your posts do make me think, I just think that you phrase them in a confrontational (some might say "trolling") way. I wish that people who disagreed with you stayed with a logical argument rather than personal attacks. Then maybe we could get dialogue going (which is presumably what you wanted).

I agree that some diagnoses are overused and that AS is poised to become the new trendy diagnosis of this decade. But you have "hit a nerve" in this community because of a few things: first, as [info]drworm said, a lot of us are doubting our own judgment enough as it is (because it is a big deal to say that you are different, especially in a way that to most people means "retarded"). Second, as several people have pointed out, many (most?) psychologists/psychiatrists know very little about the autism spectrum and misdiagnose us. As a result, which of us are diagnosed yet and which aren't is pretty arbitrary. So when you address the self-diagnosed people, it really doesn't make much sense.

Not all of us who are proud of being autistic are living "in fantasy worlds". I'm a college student (although I guess this is a fantasy world of a different kind), majoring in physics, living on my own, cooking for myself, and taking care of everything pretty well. I'm not doing very well socially, and by extension emotionally, but I'm keeping going. One of the things that makes me not just give up is knowing that when no words come, when I fail to understand irony, when I do things that everyone else knows you're not supposed to, it is not just my weakness and lack of effort. Now that I understand why I have trouble with certain things, I can keep trying to improve on them, instead of getting so discouraged (as I have in the past) that I want to kill myself. And with some things, like perseverations and eye contact, I don't care what people think anymore. If the situation really requires it, like a job interview (although I'd prefer to do a job where appearing friendly is not a requirement), I will make the effort. Otherwise, it is not my problem if people think I'm strange.

Honestly, I do understand your perspective. It's possible for people to use AS as an excuse. And the amount of NT-bashing that goes on here is sometimes excessive. But if you have "hit a nerve", maybe you shouldn't be so triumphant about it and instead try to explain your point in a less confrontational way, since presumably what you wanted was for people to understand and discuss your point of view.

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[info]uran
2004-10-04 01:54 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the level-headed reply. I agree with you on all points, and I think I just got it all wrong today. Maybe it's like waking up on the wrong side of the bed, mentally, just managing to push all the wrong buttons in people, which in turn causes them to push my buttons and so things escalate (as you've seen).
I think I'll leave the community, that's probably easiest.

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[info]redlami
2004-10-04 06:33 am UTC (link)
Yeah unfortunately I think this community has been a bad fit for you. I wish you well.

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(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 06:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]redlami, 2004-10-04 06:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 08:26 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]redlami, 2004-10-04 08:54 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uran, 2004-10-04 09:09 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_chaos_by_699, 2004-10-04 08:31 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]redlami, 2004-10-04 08:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_chaos_by_699, 2004-10-04 09:02 am UTC (Expand)

[info]firecrest
2004-10-04 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Ah Yes, Women choose to work in the sex industry. Alluered by its glamour, sex and fun huh?
Shows what people know about the sex industry.

I think the personal slandering has gone far enough here.

This could have been a very ligitimate and well debated arguement but instead, personal attacks are being made. yet again, a pressing subject is turned into a reduculous and very low arguement.

basically, if we are having a debate about the ligitimacy of self diagnoise WHY THE HELL has somebodies personal job come into this?

People might not like the sex industry. Tough. It would be nice if they dropped their prejudice and argued civilized.

I could write a whole post on prejudice among the autism community but I also got bullied into giving up by the LJ board mafia on here.

There is also a good point to made about self DX here. you DO see alot of people on here say "I read this article this afternoon" or "I only heard of aspergers last week but.."

Im not saying that these people dont have autism, but apart from the fact that there are other disorders out there that they may have, you would at least expect people to read at least a couple of books on a subject first before joining an autism community and therefor commiting themselves to this diagnosis and perhaps not another one.

(Reply to this)

Errrr
[info]whimsicalglory
2004-10-12 08:49 pm UTC (link)
"For all the self-diagnosed people, here's a new word for you to ponder"

You worded that in a way that implied that you agree with the article. Leaving it so opened ended also gives the general impression that you relate to the article's beliefs. In fact it looks like a blatant attempt to undermine people's self-DX. If it was a joke then you admit your post was simply flame bait. Thats what I call posts that serve no intellectual purpose other then to cause strife and needless arguments.

You made no attempt to rectify the problem, apologize, or anything else. I don't feel a damn bit sorry for you. I believe you were trying to attack people.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Errrr
[info]uran
2004-10-12 09:18 pm UTC (link)
I tried, I'd been bounced out of the community by then. I requested the post then be deleted by the mods as I couldn't remove it myself, but they decided it should stay as a signpost for anyone else who may disagree with them.

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