kaerast ([info]kaerast) wrote in [info]asexuality,
@ 2007-01-07 11:49:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Androgyny / Gender
Over on the [info]androgynes community somebody asked the question "Do you think that your androgynous identity has caused/contributed to your asexuality?"

I thought I'd open up that question here a bit more. To what extent does androgyny or other issues with gender form a part of your asexuality (cause or effect)?

For me it's partially issues with gender, and the fact that sex would enforce gender roles on both parties. But I'm also somewhat aromantic and uncomfortable with kissing. For a long time I wouldn't even hug people, not until I met somebody about a year ago who taught me to love hugs.

(Post a new comment)


[info]the_faery_queen
2007-01-07 11:57 am UTC (link)
i totally hate being female. i hate the female body, so i would be really uncomfortable with someone touching mine, wanting to do stuff with mine. so yeah, i thik in many ways my gender issues is part of my asexuality. i don't want people to want this body, or to like it, because i don't. i want to keep what i dislike hidden.

i don't like kissing either. or hugs. but kissing isn't a gender thing in teh same way sex is. i just find is gross. and hugs, well i hate to feel vulernable, another reason why i dislike sex, because you ar toally vulnerable, being all naked. and i just dont' like people being that close to me physically.

so many reasons :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]kaerast
2007-01-07 03:56 pm UTC (link)
Is it the female body you hate, or your female body? Do you think you'd be more comfortable if your body was more androgynous or male? You say you don't like the vulnerability, so I'm guessing a different body wouldn't make that much difference.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_faery_queen
2007-01-07 04:03 pm UTC (link)
all female body. i find it yuck! i hate boobs, they're ugly. i hate the 'rude' areas for being, well, ugly and nothing ness really. it's just horrible design.

if i was male i'd feel less vulernable, i think. sex, for women, is far more intimate than for men, i think. and women are meant to show emotion and be all huggy, so doing so makes me feel girly and makes me feel needy and soft. whereas if i was male it would be less expected of me therefore i'd probably feel braver for doing it! :)

personally i'd like a cat's body though. slinky and tidy and something that looks adrogenous, though clearly they have gender, it's less pronounced than in people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]kaerast
2007-01-07 04:21 pm UTC (link)
whereas if i was male it would be less expected of me therefore i'd probably feel braver for doing it! :)

Most of the time I define as mostly-male, so I can understand that.

personally i'd like a cat's body though

I'm more of a dog person myself, though they tend to be a little more gendered than cats. That said, the male dog I spent Christmas with did appear very feminine and people kept using feminine pronouns - he was awesome!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_faery_queen
2007-01-07 04:25 pm UTC (link)
hehe. i had a female cat who acted like a small male dog. she was cool :) i like cats because they have what is good abotu the female body, the curves (not boob curves, i like hips and waist curves) yet no boobs, no real ugly girly bits.

but ultimately, i prefer the male body. when it's toned. strong and lean. the female body, even when toned, still has boobs, still has some soft edge to it. i just prefer neat lines. cat curves are neat, not bumpy. and male lines are straight and neat too. it just looks nicer.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]amyschmexual
2007-01-07 12:09 pm UTC (link)
I dislike being female, I hate acting in any way efeminate. Yes, I think gender plays a large role in sexuality. But I am an asexual who is attracted to other females in I guess a romantic way, but not romance persay because that's girly and it makes me feel horrible.

I like hugging and kissing, but too much and I'm outta there.

(Reply to this)


[info]mullenkamp
2007-01-07 12:12 pm UTC (link)
Gender never made any difference at all to me - I don't even actually believe in any gender aside from what your physical body is. If anything, I suspect asexuality made me even more inclined to disregard gender and gender identity as thoroughly unimportant.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]kaerast
2007-01-07 03:52 pm UTC (link)
I think it's very hard to honestly say you don't believe in gender. For me I certainly recognise gender, but since accepting asexuality it's no longer a factor in whether I find somebody attractive or not.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]mullenkamp
2007-01-07 04:19 pm UTC (link)
I recognize physical gender, but beyond that, it's all just having a "male" or "female" personality. Which are stereotypes, because every single personality is different. That's how I see it - there is no gendered personality aside from the extent to which we believe in the stereotypes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]1_2_suckerpunch
2007-01-07 06:10 pm UTC (link)
See, for me, gender goes beyond stereotypes. Yeah, it's a little bit societally inflicted, but even beyond the realm of gender roles...for me androgyny/my gender identity is a case of me looking in the mirror and seeing a body that doesn't match the inside. It wouldn't match if I had a penis, either; even alone, without other peoples' assumptions and stereotypes, I just feel uncomfortable in my own skin.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]mullenkamp
2007-01-08 12:13 am UTC (link)
Well, I look in the mirror and am not crazy about what I see, and for some reason always expect to see grey eyes. But, well, I don't have grey eyes, and that doesn't mean my soul has grey eyes or something, because souls don't have eyes. ;) Nobody looks on the outside like what they think they should look like... unless they have extensive cosmetic surgery.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]hellmutt
2007-01-08 12:32 pm UTC (link)
Absolutely agree! (Says the grey-eyed thingy who also always expects to see grey eyes in the mirror. It's about the only detail I don't dissociate about at one time or another, though ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]tygerlilli
2007-01-07 10:27 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you completely. I see gender as a society-constructed concept, and that there are no links between what's between your legs and what goes on in your brain.
And I agree about asexuality helping me get past gender. It really helps me see all people as equals.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]nelotizapu
2007-01-07 03:09 pm UTC (link)
I don't particularly like being female. I wouldn't want to be male either. Personally, I'd just be happy if the boobs went away and if I could get me some gender nutral pronouns. However, I dont' really think this contributes to my asexuality at all. Because I'm aromantic as well. Why would I want to have sex with someone if I'm not even romantically attracted to them? And actually, that's part of the reason I justify myself not dressing girly; dressing that way is often meant to attract people, right? Why do I have to look prettty for people? I like how I look (even the boobs aren't that bad, and I doubt I'll ever have surgery or something drastic like that), and I don't care how others think I look, so it's all good.

So gender identity might be a cause, or for me, I think it may be more of an EFFECT with asexuality as the cause.

Oh, and [info]mullenkamp said, I don't even actually believe in any gender aside from what your physical body is. I used to feel the same way, but I can see way as I am agendered. It's the same as the way I can't comprehend sexuality that well. However, I know believe that a man can be born in a woman's body and visa versa, not that it's caused by gender roles society enforeced. I think it'd be like me wearing a dress. I don't like dresses, and I would change into a pair of jeans. However, a transgendered person is like someone stuck in a piece of clothing they don't like; however, where I only have to pull off my dress, they would have to have surgery to change it. I think it's a matter of comfort. They're uncomfortable in thier body, just like I'm uncomfortable in a dress. Same thing.

There was this guy at my mom's work recently that said that he thinks he may be a woman in a man's body. He has until now identified as gay. However, he doesn't like his penis, like a man should. And he's always thought there was something was off, but later he just thought he was gay. He's going to go to a transgender meeting and look into the possibilty. ^^

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]figbot
2007-01-07 06:10 pm UTC (link)
Ah, I like what you said about transgendered people being uncomfortable in their own bodies as compared to you being uncomfortable in a dress. I am tormented by the fact that I just can't take my skin off like you would a dress.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]1_2_suckerpunch
2007-01-07 06:12 pm UTC (link)
I don't particularly like being female...I don't care how others think I look, so it's all good.

I heart that entire paragraph.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]ladyjemanny
2007-01-07 09:39 pm UTC (link)
i really agree with what you said about not dressing girly because it's only a way of attracting people. i often feel that the performed aspects of gender are solely for the purpose of attracting a mate, and in this way i feel like asexuality plays into the renunciation of gender roles. at the same time, i realize that the connection is not quite that simple: i'm not aromantic, but i don't feel like i could be in a relationship with someone who didn't acknowledge and love the male side of me as much as they did the female side.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]goddessofchaos
2007-01-07 03:37 pm UTC (link)
I can understand why androgyny and asexuality are often linked, but for me it's not the case. I've never had any gender issues and I'm happy to be female. I'm not a "typical female" in all ways (who is?) but I do love clothes and make-up and enjoy looking good and being feminine. I like my female body, on the whole - I just don't have any desire to share it with anyone sexually.

(Reply to this)


[info]skullfaced
2007-01-07 04:32 pm UTC (link)
I identify as both aromantic asexual and genderqueer/mentally androgynous.

For me, I think asexuality probably had a big role in shaping my views on gender. Not wishing to be seen as a sex object, even before my discovery of asexuality, and not viewing others as a sex object weakened the hold that gender has on me. Without sexual orientation to uphold gender, it eventually deteriorated for me to the point that I now buy more men's clothing than women, although I do still wear feminine jewelry and I /love/ tank tops. I really don't think my androgyny has contributed much to my asexuality as much as my asexuality has contributed to my androgyny.

I love hugs. XD I used to be uncomfortable with a lot of touching (though not very much) until I ran into some now-friends of mine who can be complete cuddle-whores at times.

(Reply to this)


[info]bailzzararco
2007-01-07 04:45 pm UTC (link)
I think it's the other way around for me. My asexuality causes my androgyny.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]winter94
2007-01-07 05:33 pm UTC (link)
ditto - except trade out androgyny for gender in my case.

I've never related to any gender, and I absolutely hate my body, but I think I'm coming to terms with it now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]rason_and_rym
2007-01-07 10:49 pm UTC (link)
I totally agree. Although there are days when I feel like dressing up and wearing make up and stuff, it's not a matter of attracting the opposite sex but attracting people that have similar interests to me. Like I feel real pretty wearing my HIM shirt, not typical pretty.

Being asexual means I don't have to worry about how perky my breasts are in a certain bra or caring what others think of me sexually. I dress for myself whether that's in a flowery mini dress or pj pants and a baggy sweatshirt. Not necessarily androgynous but not gender-conscious about clothing.

I do like being female because that's what I am. Although on those hikes and camping trips I wish I had a penis so it'd be easier to pee! I also wouldn't hesitate about chopping off both my boobs if I got breast cancer.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]nelotizapu
2007-01-07 11:20 pm UTC (link)
Although on those hikes and camping trips I wish I had a penis so it'd be easier to pee! I also wouldn't hesitate about chopping off both my boobs if I got breast cancer.

Ditto and ditto. XD

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]figbot
2007-01-07 06:16 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure if my asexuality has caused my androgyny or vice versa, but I consider both those mental states for me. My androgyny comes before my asexuality for me, as I feel if I had the body that fit me I wouldn't be quite so repelled by touching. I probably wouldn't have sex, but I would want to share closeness with somebody. Physical intimacy. As I am now, I am so disgusted with myself I avoid such a thing. Not only because I am a physical sex I am unhappy with, I am also extremely overweight. It's very depressing for me, and the hopelessness tends to overwhelm my drive to transition. Can anyone relate?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]hellmutt
2007-01-08 12:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm very overweight, have just lost a lot of it and am still trying to work out how that's affected my gender, sexuality and body image issues!

Certainly before, I found myself repulsive because I've been pretty much media-trained to hate fatties, as well as the fact that fat distribution alone makes your physical sex impossible to ignore/conceal.

I've always been repulsed by the thought of myself having sex, too, but I don't know how far that was related to disliking my overweightness; there are other factors in play there. On the other hand, I've never considered my sexual organs as anything other than uninteresting bits of flesh and that hasn't changed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]caelum
2007-01-07 07:14 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd be a lot happier if I didn't have to deal with my ambiguous boobs (they're sub-A-cup so shopping for bras is rather demoralising) and the hissy fit my uterus pitches every 28 days.

(Reply to this)


[info]psionic_rat
2007-01-07 07:40 pm UTC (link)
I hesitate to say for sure whether my gender identity(or lack of one) caused my asexuality or if it happened the other way around. I don't really think one caused the other, but both were caused by something else and both contribute to each other equally on a parallel rather than a 'cause and effect'. Though at the rate the issue of asexuality with genderlessness comes up I have to question how prevelent this sort of thing is among the larger asexual community.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]nelotizapu
2007-01-07 07:56 pm UTC (link)
but both were caused by something else and both contribute to each other equally on a parallel rather than a 'cause and effect'

A lurking variable! Yeah, that's a good idea...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]veltzeh
2007-01-07 08:20 pm UTC (link)
Well, I already posted in [info]androgynes but that doesn't stop me from posting here too! :)

For me, all these three things are completely unrelated (they don't affect each other):
1) asexuality
2) genderlessness (actually that means the fact that some other people believe in gender while I don't)
3) me having sex

(Reply to this)


[info]coriandermouse
2007-01-08 09:01 am UTC (link)
Hmm. I was a bit of a tomboy growing up, and was never really into frilly dresses and make-up and gossip. I get along better with boys than girls. We seem to think more similarly, or have more similar interests, or something. Girls annoy me when they get all "omigawd shopping let's all get manicures SQUEE." *shudder* I don't consider myself androgynous by any means, though. I think it's more personality. I still dress and look female-ish.

(Reply to this)


[info]teichan
2007-01-08 09:43 am UTC (link)
Uh. I'm a transsexual, but I don't act like one ( i.e. "Woo boobs, but screw pink. Gimme my cargo pants back." ).

I don't think it has any effect on why I'm not sexual, though. I just don't like sex. I always thought it was kind of silly to see if people who like frosted jello cakes are asexual, but maybe that's just me. I'm kind of neutered on the whole internet sub-culture thing these days.

(Reply to this)


[info]hellmutt
2007-01-08 01:32 pm UTC (link)
Y'know, I'd love to know the answer to that. I suspect I won't know until I've got my thoughts sorted out. I'm waiting to see a counsellor to help with these and other issues. :/

I started typing a summary of where I am at the moment, but it's getting too long, so I'll post it on my own blog.

(Reply to this)


[info]tooemo24
2007-01-08 11:14 pm UTC (link)
it's too bad a lot of you guys feel uncomfortable with your bodies. I'm not that keen on my appearance, but what can you do I figure... I guess our bodies will never reflect our souls, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad to be overweight or have boobs. :)

I'm not very androgenous (I'm a guy), but I feel like a big question mark internally, and that certainly has an effect on my asexuality, though I don't think I completely fit the definition of "asexual." I'd still like to have sex if I could find a person I'd be comfortable with, but that seems like a longshot.

(Reply to this)


[info]grygon
2007-01-10 02:23 am UTC (link)
i'm very androgynous, depending how i dress and do my hair, and love androgynous characters.

if i could keep my femme form and have a penis i would so do it... but it's my understanding, so far, that getting a penis also means giving up my hips... or what hips i have at least.

but that's not the question.... eh, who knows. i don't personally think it has a LOT to do with my sexual pref but maybe it does? i'm a lot of help, i know.

(Reply to this)


[info]medusa_stare
2007-01-10 07:25 am UTC (link)
I'm not androgynous at all, and I've never particularly wanted to be. I like being female, having a feminine appearance and all that. If anything, I wish I were slightly more feminine - I'm a bit lacking in the boob department, sadly. I've always enjoyed dressing in a more feminine manner, wearing dresses and skirts, putting on heels and make-up, and being obviously a woman.

The only thing I don't totally love about being a woman is getting my period. Show me a woman who says she loves her period, though, and I'll show you a woman who's lying.

(Reply to this)


[info]lierre
2007-01-11 12:15 pm UTC (link)
i don't feel very female, nor does the image of womanliness appeal to me. i entertained the thought that i might be transsexual for a while (in the sense of relating to the male gender). this didn't check out, and for a time i assumed a bi-gendered disposition but this also did not quite fit.

the recognition of asexuality and being non-gendered took some time but happened about the same period. i relate somewhat to both male and female sexes/genders, and assume a female role for the most part, mainly because this is easiest for my family to accept and doesn't bother me really. i don't fit to the stereotypes for females/women, which is a bit alienating, but able to be coped with and since it doesn't appeal to me either i don't seek to adopt them. i'm working things out as best i can and it seems some opposite of androgyny is actually working best for me so far.

(Reply to this)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…