tinnys_rambles ([info]tinnys_rambles) wrote in [info]applyingtograd,
@ 2009-07-10 08:37:00
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Entry tags:m.s. phd, ms vs phd

Hey all. Its my first time posting, and I would just like to thank everyone for already being so helpful.

I searched through the tags and haven't been able to find this. Should I apply for a M.S. or a PhD? I thought after getting a BSc, one would go on to get a MS, then go on to a PhD, then a post doc. I asked all my professors at school, and they basically said its all up to me, and that I would be fine in either case. I was also at a scientific conference last summer, and I asked several grad school admissions deans, and their answers varied. Some schools don't find undergrads ready to go straight to a PhD, and others said it depends on the student. My parents didn't go to school in the US, and they are completely confused about how the whole system works (they went to school in India), and are really stressing me out.

I feel as though I am a mediocre student. I graduated from a biology program with a 3.4 GPA. I did well in all my biology courses, but struggled in chemistry and physics. I am a nervous test taker, and have mediocre GRE scores. However, I have great recommendation letters. I have been involved in independent research since my sophomore year, in both my college and Harvard Med. I've participated in community service all 4 years of college and also have served as the treasurer of a club.

Should I call schools and ask what they believe a competitive candidate looks like? If so, what should I ask? What should I do if the school only accepts PhD candidates, and doesn't have a MS program listed?

Thank all of you so much!


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[info]ladykathryn
2009-07-10 12:53 pm UTC (link)
There isn't really a good answer for this, actually - some things to think about are how comfortable are you with writing, how are are you that you actually want a PhD, and so on. Then, some schools you can't apply to the PhD program, you complete your MS and/or do comprehensives or otherwise compete for a slot in the PhD portion of the program after that. My suggestion would be twofold. First, consider a mix of PhD and MS applications, to hedge your bets. Second, figure out where you want to go, then decide what you're applying for!

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 01:48 pm UTC (link)
That makes perfect sense. Thank you so much!!

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[info]fullofpink
2009-07-10 01:41 pm UTC (link)
This is for everyone around the board:

Sometimes it isn't the question: "am I qualified enough?" but rather "am I ready?" Your VERY first thing to think about is what do you WANT to study? This will help you narrow down programs to a very small degree. I have no idea about what people study in sciences but depending on your interests - that is where you start looking. Prestige, school, length, cost, and whatever else should be thought of AFTER you decide what you want to study. coming up with a list of potential advisers will be CRUCIAL to any decision making process.

After realizing some of the advisers you may want to work with, THEN look at their programs and requirements. Some schools will request a Ma before a Phd, others will only offer a MA and others will only be a Phd. Once you know what to expect then you can stop analyzing yourself and reviewing your intentions.

Everyone has differences with their grades, gres and all this and since most of us only went through the application process and not the selection process, we honestly can't answer that. If you can convey to a grad school that you belong in their program then your odds are better than worrying about if you should even bother because you don't know.

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[info]roadtophd
2009-07-10 03:17 pm UTC (link)
I'm applying to grad schools this year (clinical psychology PhD) and I think that the first point here has been really important for narrowing down my options. For me, the answer to "Am I ready?" came after working at a research center for 2 years and attending an academic conference last month. This made me certain that my current field of interest is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

I started compiling a list of schools about 6 months ago based mainly on which schools offer funding and have a professor (or preferably more) working on something that seems like a good fit for me. Sadly, this meant that I had to weed out a lot of schools in lovely parts of the country, but I since I would not be a good fit at a school where, say, everyone studies schizophrenia from a psychodynamic perspective, this was necessary.

At the end of the summer I'll be emailing the professors on my list to see if they'll be taking students in 2010. This will help me weed my list down from 38 to a more reasonable number. I have some favorites already in mind but there's no point in applying if it turns out they're not accepting students.

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(Anonymous)
2009-07-10 03:55 pm UTC (link)
"Prestige, school, length, cost, and whatever else should be thought of AFTER you decide what you want to study."

I agree that potential advisors are an incredibly important part of which school to choose. However, from the placement records I've been looking at, prestige predicts placement pretty well, and so prestige is actually (or at least seems to be linked to) a very important factor. Given other options, I would not go to a school that had an excellent advisor for me but a placement record with many students not getting academics jobs.

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[info]endxgame
2009-07-10 04:59 pm UTC (link)
Right, but in every field the difference between the fifth "best" and the 15th "best" school are small enough that to chop down a list from ten schools to five you're going to want to know what it is you want to study.

In addition, different departments have different levels of prestige in different sub-fields.

Unless you know what you want to study then you have no way of really evaluate things like prestige, fit, and placement record.

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[info]brittdreams
2009-07-10 06:51 pm UTC (link)
"However, from the placement records I've been looking at, prestige predicts placement pretty well, and so prestige is actually (or at least seems to be linked to) a very important factor. "

I think this is discipline dependent. The prestigious programs in my discipline aren't producing graduates in my fields of interest and their placement records are falling as people realize they're hanging their hats on the glory days of yore. And I say this as a person at a school where the placement record is rising and that came here because I have a top-notch advisor. Give us 5 years and we'll be the school putting graduates in top placements. Yes, that sounds cocky. But I know my classmates and their work, and I know my own work, and we're building up our school's reputation one PhD graduate at a time.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 01:53 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much. When looking at schools its so easy to get caught up in what a programs requirements may be, rather than thinking about what I want to get out of it. Once again, thank you. You really helped to calm my nerves.

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[info]sparklingsoull
2009-07-10 02:58 pm UTC (link)
I am kind of in the same boat as you (3.49 GPA, good in Sociology courses, bad test taker, etc.) I suggest getting your MS first and then getting your PhD. Think about it. If you apply now you will get into an average graduate school. With your MS you are more likely to get into a top graduate school. That is what my professors have told me.

I would email the programs and ask if you can speak to them on the phone. I did that for my top choice program and at the end of the interview he just said, "call me in December before I read your records so I can remember you." It might work.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 01:50 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much.

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[info]ravenword
2009-07-10 03:43 pm UTC (link)
In life sciences, research experience is key. If you have the research background and are capable of getting stuff done in the lab (with letters of recommendation to back that up), you're ready for a PhD program. Getting an MS first is not a great plan, especially if you can't find a funded MS. If you feel like you need more time to prepare or to improve your CV, I would suggest finding a job in a lab and working as a research assistant/lab tech for a few years. This will give you a lot of practical experience, and you won't have to pay tuition.

I graduated with a BS/MS in neuroscience (my school had a combined program, I didn't get a separate MS) with a GPA around 3.4. My GRE scores were good but not amazing. I worked as a research assistant for two years, applied to 9 PhD programs, and was accepted to 5 of them. About half the students in my program started a PhD straight out of undergrad, the other half worked as research assistants first. Almost no one did a separate MS program before the PhD.

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[info]pinkspudbrit
2009-07-10 05:35 pm UTC (link)
yes. get a relevant job.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Thanks so much for the comment. It really helped to calm my nerves and provided great advice. I'm really glad that I turned down higher paying jobs for the research assistant job I have now.

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(Anonymous)
2009-07-10 07:33 pm UTC (link)
As well I am in the life sciences, and like the person above me posted... research experience is the key. Many programs will not accept you into a PhD program unless you've completed an independent research project, so for some that may require getting an MS and writing a thesis first. Of course if your grades were poor in undergrad, then many programs would probably not accept you into a PhD. They'd want you to prove yourself capable of graduate coursework. But it seems like you are ok on both, so what I would say is if you feel ready for a PhD then go for it.
If you're not comfortable going straight for the PhD, some programs will allow you to come in as an MS student then transfer into the PhD. There's a few current PhD students in my program who decided to switch to the PhD mid-MS, my mentor did this as well during her graduate school years, so it's quite common. You can usually find that information in the department graduate manual, ours is posted on our website, but not all of them post them. But if you choose to do this, be up front about this plan with your mentor because my mentor does not want me transferring to the PhD, she wants me to finish my thesis first.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Thanks so much for the information. It really helped to calm my nerves and know a little more about what I should be looking for in graduate school manuals. Thanks!

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[info]crazypumpkin
2009-07-10 09:06 pm UTC (link)
I think it really is field dependent. When I looked at Microbiology programs, MS programs were rare. They expect you to go right for the PhD. Talking to people over in the Entomology department here, it's expected that they will start in a MS program then move to a PhD program.
You'll find schools will be more interested in your research experience than your grades. Granted I applied 6 years out of undergrad, no one really cared about my 3.1 GPA, but they did want to know what kind of research I'd been doing at my last job.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 02:03 pm UTC (link)
I am also looking into microbiology programs, and both myself and my parents were a little freaked about the lack of MS programs. Thank you so much for the info about the emphasis on research experience. I'm now really glad that I turned down higher paying jobs for the research assistant positions I've had.

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[info]crazypumpkin
2009-07-14 02:22 pm UTC (link)
It's pretty standard in Micro to just go straight for a PhD. The school I'm at offers a MS in Bacteriology, so I know a few people who have gone that route, but my understanding is that it's pretty uncommon.
If you've got any questions about grad school for micro, applying, and the interview process, please feel free to message me. I don't read the applyingtograd community often.

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[info]icanhascurves
2009-07-11 04:29 am UTC (link)
I'm applying to ~6 year doctoral programs for the fall of '10.

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[info]tinnys_rambles
2009-07-14 02:04 pm UTC (link)
Good luck!! I hope everything goes well for you.

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