The Jabberwocky ([info]kelleah) wrote in [info]ap_racism,
@ 2006-03-08 18:22:00
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Current mood: pensive

Homophobia is the new Racism?
You know, I’m not really the type to get all caught up in the Academy Awards, and I’m not really interested in discussing this year’s ceremony in and of itself, but an issue has been raised that concerns me.  An issue that continues to come up time and time again, in one form or another.

One of my favorite bloggers, Ernie, posted a link to a friend’s journal reacting to Crash’s win in the Best Picture category this year.  Okay, Towleroad and his friends were rooting for Brokeback Mountain, which I understand, and I don’t have a problem with.  (To be honest, I would’ve preferred if any of them had won except Crash.)  But what bothered me in the comments section of the blogger’s post was how quickly people descended into stereotypical racist remarks about Crash, Hustle & Flow, etc. 

(The comments go on for days, so I wouldn't try to read them all unless you have a lot of time on your hands.)


It’s one thing to criticize the film and feel that BBM was robbed because of latent homophobia in the Hollywood system, but it’s another to speak with such derision about the film’s topic and performers in manner that borders on bigotry.  Ignorant folks are ignorant folks, regardless of their stripe, but some of the comments came off as if racism is somehow “safer” than homophobia now, and POC don’t have to struggle with issues of oppression and discrimination anymore.  And if they do, it’s certainly not in the way or to the extent that homophobia affects members of the GLBT community.

And this got me to thinking, do members of the GLBT community feel that they are the modern day “brethren” of POC?  Do white (or those whom identify as white) gay men and women feel that they understand what it’s like to be a POC in America today because they are victims of discrimination?  Do they – and I don’t say ‘they’ in a sense of “us” versus “them”, but more in the sense that I am a woman who identifies as asexual/hetero and I do not dare speak for a community that I am not apart of – feel that the GLBT community’s fight for equality perfectly mirrors POC’s fight for equality, and therefore, they know what it’s like to be a POC?

Now, I do not ask the questions to be facetious or coy, I am genuinely interested in this perspective.  I guess my biggest issue with this phenomenon (as seen clearly in the comments of this blogger’s post): Do white homosexuals feel that they are incapable of being racist because they are victims of discrimination and oppression?  Is this an attitude that’s a reflection of the white GLBT community at large?  Do gay POC call white gays on their racism in the fight for equality?  Or is there a larger sense of it’s best to focus on our fight for a common goal and not “nitpick”? 

I have to admit that I have rarely heard gay POC rush to equate racism with homophobia nearly as often as I’ve heard it from white members of the GLBT community.  Now, this may be because of my close proximity to out white gays/lesbians versus out gay/lesbian POC.  But I believe that it would be difficult for me to find an out, gay person of color stating that “Being gay in America is just like being black” or something to that effect.  Is there anyone here who has heard a POC make a similar statement?

A part of me feels as if the dichotomy would be similar to that of the old AfAm feminist movement.  When asked which affected their lives more on a daily basis: sexism or racism, white women were distraught to hear their black sisters say racism.  And in my divine ignorance, I imagine it would prove to be a similar situation for GLBT POC.  If I’m wrong, please speak up and give me the thrashing I deserve.

Now, I’m used to folks using the history of the African-American struggle as their social “footstool” in the fight for change.  And I won’t get into how much it pisses me off when I hear people do it – that goes for whites and non-black POC – but I will say that my teeth gnash together every time a person of non-African descent implies that black folks are no longer subject to overt racism in their justifiable fits of rage.  (I’m looking at you, Parry Shen.)

The short story is it’s commandeering our experiences (one that no one who isn’t a member of our community can possibly know) and wielding them as your personal battering ram.  As if to say, “Well no one in their right mind in this day and age would even think of treating black people this way, so don’t we deserve to be treated just as well.”  Now, doesn’t that sound inherently fucked up on every level?  At what point did black people begin to be treated as the white men’s equal?  At what point did someone tell you that it was okay to speak about the AfAm experience because you feel that you understand it now?   Who told you that you understood anything?

I’m sorry.  I’m not articulating my thoughts very well.  It’s partially due to my frustration over Towleroad’s post’s comments, and partially due to my desire to not offend.  But I see this happening constantly.  Hell, I just read an article on X-Men 3, and Sir Ian McKellen made the gay/black analogy for the umpteenth time and not one person in my preferred sci-fi forum batted an eye.  Are the assumed similarities between the GLBT struggle and the AfAm struggle that readily accepted by liberals?  Because I can tell you right now, it’s not by the African-American community.  And I’m beginning to wonder if POC, particularly people of African descent are holding their tongues out of respect for the GLBT community's fight for equality, fear of an anti-homophobic backlash, or simple "different day, same bullshit" frustration?  Or maybe I’m just being the selfish bitch here and I’m completely off the mark.



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[info]gal_montag
2006-03-09 03:07 am UTC (link)
First off, I don't buy that it's some vast anti-gay consipracy that BBM didn't win best picture. I find it hard to believe that in an industry where it was almost always okay to be out (even if it was not general public knowlege) has enough latent homophobia to not give the Oscar to a movie just because of teh gehy. I'm also inclined to think that if BBM had won it, people'd be all up in arms about the latent racism in Hollywood that kept a movie like Crash from winning. And isn't it possible that the Academy just thought Crash was the better movie? I totally hate putting thoughts into people's heads when there's no possible way we could ever know.

In answer to your question, yes and no. Yes, becuse homosexuals *do* face opression and suffer in society and no because you can't look at a person and *know* they're gay. However, I can't hide my race. I'm not saying that gay people *should* hide, just that if people don't know, they don't know and if you don't want to tell them you don't have to.

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[info]kelleah
2006-03-09 05:58 pm UTC (link)
I don't necessarily believe that BBM didn't win because of latent homophobia in Hollywood, but I can understand that others could interpret it that way. I'm not sure I can say that homophobia is absolutely 100% the reason why it didn't win Best Picture, but I can't say that it absolutely had nothing to do with it either. I can see both arguments, and like you said, there's no way we'll ever know.

I had several questions, so I'm not sure which ones you are answering with a yes and a no. I know POC tend to empathize with the GLBT movement, but I don't feel that many of them/us feel that the oppression we are forced to endure is necessarily the same -- for the reason you mentioned above, and possibly many others. But what I'm wondering is how do we go about making that distinction clear to gay/lesbian non-POC.

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[info]cerebralshrike
2006-03-09 03:59 am UTC (link)
Its been said before, but I'll say it again.

Racism is the new racism.

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[info]kelleah
2006-03-09 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I know that. And you know that. But how is that many gay/lesbian non-POC don't know that? Or is it just a simple case of white folks ignoring someone else's reality.

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[info]sabonasi
2006-03-09 04:32 am UTC (link)
Racism and homophobia manifest differently, and saying, "No one would say ________ about _________" is a way to bring...validity? to one's feelings. Because what is unacceptable to say about one is acceptable to say about the other. But there's a lot of ignorance involved, which I'm having to recognize in myself. Comparing oppressions does not get one anywhere, and one usually ends up invalidating someone else's experiences in the process.

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[info]kelleah
2006-03-09 06:30 pm UTC (link)
one usually ends up invalidating someone else's experiences in the process.

And I think that is the issue that I'm getting at. Comparing my oppression with your (not "you", a figurative you) oppression doesn't bring you validity, you merely expose your ignorance of my struggle and belittle my fight for change by implying that it is a thing of the past. Racism and homophobia manifest differently because they are different. The similiarities they have lie in the fact that those who have the power to oppress only have so many avenues to wield their oppression.

Black history is not a tool with which others get to use as they see fit in order to push their agendas. At what point did anyone say that was okay? You diminish my fight by presuming and implying that it is over, and we're all living high on the hog. You do not get to commandeer my voice and those of my ancestors to bandy about in the name of your cause. and a part of me can't help but see that as a form of psychological manipulation.

I've heard (and I imagine you may have also) countless conversations where someone white -- gay or straight -- compares some injustice to slavery. But these people know so little about the history, detail and scope of slavery in North and South America. They don't know or understand the extent of its impact and how it has pervasively influenced our lives and our nation on a fundamental level. And that's just slavery. I'm not even touching on the years of subtle and overt oppression that flourished throughout the years and continues to malign our society to this day.

So if you don't know these things, if you don't fully understand, haven't bothered to educate yourself beyond the average high school textbook, what gives you the right to wield it like a sledgehammer and diminish their journey to some trite analogy to "validate" your feelings.

Because the reality is: Yes! Someone would say _____ about _____. People say it all the time, just not always someone in your social circle. You don't know this because you're not paying attention. I like Parry Shen, but yes, there are radio hosts who make blatant derogatory remarks about the way black people speak. And no, they're not few in number. So stating that it doesn't happen because it's socially "unacceptable" is bullshit, and it is wrong to imply that AfAm are treated with greater respect than other POC or members of the GLBT community because millions of people of African descent who will happily inform that that is certainly not the case.

And to me -- and I am not alone in this -- that is exactly what those statements do.

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[info]sabonasi
2006-03-09 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I agree with your comment.

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[info]daysofthegun
2006-03-09 04:43 am UTC (link)
I thought Crash was a fantastic movie. Incredible directing, suberb acting, and a very smart script.

I agree 100% that it's view of race in America is immature at best, and problematic at the very least, but I thought that, cinematically, it was brilliant.

I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain or any of the other contenders, so I can't say how they fared, though.

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lol
[info]recumbentgoat
2006-03-09 04:52 am UTC (link)
I posted an article from reappropriate.com over at [info]debunkingwhite about how Crash was chock full o magical poc stereotypes.

And what were the majority of comments? Gay and gender issues. smh

Hell, right now someone posted about the misogyny of The Boondocks comics and cartoon.

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Re: lol
[info]keeni84
2006-03-09 04:11 pm UTC (link)
Ha.

I just had a conversation with my sister talking about how a lot of white feminist women refused to look at anything outside the scope of sexism, especially racism. It's frustrating.

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Re: lol
[info]kelleah
2006-03-09 08:56 pm UTC (link)
I know exactly what you mean. I just read another blog entry where a young, white woman tried to turn the discussion about Three Six Mafia's Oscar win into one about gender and misogyny. And she got shut down real quick. I'm glad that the other people commenting on the thread didn't fall for the WWS. They kept the conversation on point and expressed thoughts about the issue Jason raised in his original post. What a novel concept.

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Re: lol
[info]sailing_zephyr
2006-03-16 01:15 am UTC (link)
lol, your icon
lol, WWS

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[info]chreebomb
2006-03-09 04:08 pm UTC (link)
Do white homosexuals feel that they are incapable of being racist because they are victims of discrimination and oppression?

I've seen this attitude, more or less obviously, far too often in the white queer community.

Is this an attitude that’s a reflection of the white GLBT community at large?

I think it depends. I have encountered more politically conscious queer folk than I have straight, actually, as far as percentage-wise. It seems the more educated on social/oppression issues, the less likely the "queer struggle=black struggle" false equation. But there is a definite frustration in the queer rights struggle for POC. Whites are still whites, which means that all the privilege, entitlement, and silencing that happens in straight progressive circles happen in the queer ones.


Do gay POC call white gays on their racism in the fight for equality? Or is there a larger sense of it’s best to focus on our fight for a common goal and not “nitpick”?

Here, I'm not sure that there's a generalzation that can be made. A lot of the variety comes from the individuality of ethnic identity. I've know queer POC who will "call out" white people on their racism. But each individual has to form zir ethnic identity [and I'm not just referring to POC]. And depending on how much examination and self-discovery zie has done, the individuals I've known sometimes aren't so aware of the more "subtle" forms of racism, you know? But I don't think that that's much different from the larger het population.

White people are white people: even if they're gay, you know?

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[info]kelleah
2006-03-09 07:02 pm UTC (link)
I certainly wouldn't ask anything of GLBT POC that I didn't demand of myself. I don't always call white people on their racism -- that would be a full time job -- and I know you have to pick your battles carefully to get anywhere in this life, so I'm not saying that GLBT POC need to call white gays/lesbians on their racism more than straight or asexual POC. I wouldn't dream of placing such a task squarely on their shoulders.

I'm just wondering if perhaps there's an impulse to stay quiet when the racism starts freeflowing from the mouths of GLBT, not only because you have to pick your battles carefully, but also because you're fighting a common cause on another front. Is there an element of having to straddle yet another fence in your day-to-day life because you have to remember that just because a person is discriminated against because of their sexuality doesn't necessarily mean they have a greater understanding of the struggle that POC have to endure everyday?

I have encountered more politically conscious queer folk than I have straight, actually, as far as percentage-wise. It seems the more educated on social/oppression issues, the less likely the "queer struggle=black struggle" false equation.

I can't say that I necessarily have met more politically conscious gays and lesbians than straight. I think for me it's more likely that they expect me to believe they are more politically conscious than straight people because they are victims of oppression. The assumption is made that I accept "Well, hey, I'm on your side too, sister, because I too know what it's like to be oppressed" as a sign of profound awareness and brotherhood.

And yes, they pay more attention to legislature that affects their community and our nation than most of the straight white people I know. But to be fair, I would say that numbers-wise, the gays/lesbians I know who do this equal the number of straight, white liberal hippies that are just as conscious of our societies problems. For every Ellen Degeneres I know, I know a Susan Sarandon. And they are all capable of spouting the same erroneous analogy and assuming that they are incapable of being racist because they "understand" the struggle POC have had to endure.

And btw, thank you for taking my question seriously. This is an issue that truly bothers me. I don't normally post new topics to communities; I tend to lurk and comment on the ones that come up on from other members. So for me to speak up and broach a new topic in an open forum such as this, it is a big deal to me.

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[info]chreebomb
2006-03-09 07:27 pm UTC (link)
I absolutely agree about the burden. I hope I didn't imply otherwise. :D

I think it DOES make it harder for POC in the LGBT community--although I don't want to speak for them [I am, for all intents and purposes, white]. Intersecting oppressions and all that.

I hear what you're saying, I really do.

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