MATT ([info]triangle_world) wrote in [info]anti_antigay,
@ 2005-11-12 11:44:00
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sorry.
i was wrong, i don't care anymore.
we should all not care.
we should all just ignore everything
and go along with our daily routines,
and most of all at least try to be happy
look past all the protests,
all the anti-this, anti-thats
happiness is all that matters
but i guess it's shown that happiness will never be settled for some people
extremists.

anti-gays are always anti-everything, and at the end of the day i don't think they're ever happy
and pro-gays are fighting a miserable war that when they defeat it, which i know they will, and i don't have a problem with that, they'll just complain about something else.

we will always be miserable people because we all want something that we can't have, and when and if we get it, we'll still want more.

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[info]pperthinhymn
2005-11-12 05:59 pm UTC (link)
Sure it's one thing to be proud of being gay, another to tell people that you're proud, but maybe having parades, riots, groups like this are just drawing attention to yourselves

Everyday is "heterosexual pride" day. So what is so wrong with Gay Pride? If people in a heterosexual relationship are allowed to express love to their partner in public why should it be any different if the partner is the same gender? It`s still love; still happiness.

And if it was just "kept quiet" so to speak the Government would be more likely to ignore it and pretend it wasn`t there.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]apollotiger
2005-11-12 06:04 pm UTC (link)
And if it was just "kept quiet" so to speak the Government would be more likely to ignore it and pretend it wasn`t there.

Indeed. Historically that's worked extremely well for them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]pperthinhymn, 2005-11-12 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mel_pa, 2005-11-12 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:03 pm UTC
Dissent
[info]apollotiger
2005-11-12 06:02 pm UTC (link)
I don't mean to be mean, I have nothing against gays

Lesson #1: if you have to say it, ask why. Chances are that you're denying what the rest of your post is going to be saying.

it's just maybe the reason all your rights are slowly decaying is because you guys are getting yourself noticed and people don't like what they see?

So we ought to fade into the background? I really don't like the sound of that at all. Maybe people don't like what they see in the gay community, but we don't judge our straight allies by the actions of, say, President Bush, or Fred Phelps, just because they're straight … do us the same courtesy.

Sure it's one thing to be proud of being gay, another to tell people that, but maybe having parades, riots, groups like this are just drawing attention to yourselves? Maybe if you guys weren't so pushy about it, the laws for gay marriage would slip through.

I'm not necessarily proud of my sexual orientation any more than I'm proud that my skin is light, that I've got eyes of a color that nobody can seem to agree on, or that my hair is blond (actually, at the moment, red). There's a difference between being proud and not being ashamed. I'm not ashamed of those things, and I'm not shamed of being gay.

I understand how riots could be disturbing. Hell, riots disturb me, too; I think they're generally a pretty bad way of going about protesting. However, I would be incredibly surprised if most of the people reading this post had any influence whatsoever on a rioting mob. Have you ever tried to influence a rioting mob? I don't want to.

Parades … yeah, I can see your point there. SF Pride, Southern Decadence, etc., are places you probably don't want to bring your 4-year-old son. So don't.

As for groups … what do you mean by groups? Do you mean Gay-Straight Alliances? Queer Student Unions? If you think that anyone will willingly give up the right to socialize with other people who, for once in their life, don't think they're sick or disgusting, you're pretty deluded.

I don't think we're pushy; I think we're standing up for ourselves and for our rights. We're raising awareness. Would you tell the same thing to the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.? Would you say, “Excuse me, Dr. King, but maybe your people would get civil rights if you sat down and shut up for a bit longer?” I doubt it would've happened then, and I doubt it will happen now.

I'm just making a suggestion, I know you guys have every american right to be proud, and show it.

Your suggestion, in my eyes, amounts to “Sit down and shut up”. Your post seems to be saying, “You can be proud about being gay, but do you have to do it where I have to watch?!” (correct me if I'm wrong.)

it's just don't get all mad and complain when some people don't like what they see.

I reserve the right to get mad and complain if some assumes — as they have done twice in the last week — that just because I identify as gay and am a teenager, I've obviously had lots of anal sex. I reserve the right to get mad and complain if people treat me unfairly because they have a prejudice against someone who has nothing to do with me and is nothing like me.

I've just exercised that right to get mad and complain. Thanks.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
addendum
[info]apollotiger
2005-11-12 06:05 pm UTC (link)
Oh, also: if you compare me to people who incite riots simply because we share a sexual orientation, can I compare you to the people who murdered Matthew Shepard and then claimed temporary insanity?*

* Seriously, that's the most amusing defense ever. I'd like to see it in reverse — some really butch lesbian beats the crap out of a straight man and says, “I'm sorry, officer; he was hitting on me and I went temporarily insane!

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: Dissent - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:32 pm UTC

[info]dudepower1982
2005-11-12 06:02 pm UTC (link)
Here's what I propose: conservatives quit fighting/smearing the concept of same-sex civil unions for gay & lesbian couples, and we'll quit "flaunting" our sexuality and go about our lives quietly. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]apollotiger
2005-11-12 06:28 pm UTC (link)
Well-said. When it stops being an issue, we'll stop representing our side.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:33 pm UTC

[info]lavendershade
2005-11-12 06:04 pm UTC (link)
Well, you are sincere in your question, and i think you're pretty brave for asking it, but i think there's a couple things i should say.

Firstly, there would never have been an America, like the America we know, without people standing up and being different. The Puritans didn't exactly hold parades...they CECEDED, now, that's even MORE attention getting then a riot, which gays tend to not have anymore, anyways.

If America hadn't ceceded, we might not even be having this conversation.

Also, i don't think it's fair to say we're the only "minority" to raise controversy. Whatever happened to black Americans? They sure did raise a rucus, and people HATED what they were doing, in fact, the hatred of black people was even stronger, because a lot of people hated WHAT black people were, and what they looked like, not what they did. Now, i bet a lot of people at that time had this exact same conversation, and, like you, they sincerly believed that maybe if (in their case) the black people were quiet and placid, they wouldn't be as hated or resented or whatever.

Well, silence breeds ignorance, naivety and cultural cracks. That leads to hatred, resentment and fear of change. That leads to laws which are made to segregate the unwanted, and puniwsh them for who they are or what they believe in. And that will lead to genocide.

It's happened in the Middle East, China, Japan, Russia, France, Spain, Germany, and America. Look at the history books and you'll see, that's where silence and the closing of communication leads.

THe witch trials, the Spanish Inquiresitions, The Holocaust, the Racial Purity laws STILL ENFORCED in Japan (if you are Korean, even a percentage, you can not gain citizenship in Japan TO.THIS.DAY.) and many, many more.

Basically, it's a good question, and there's a good reason why we can't ever be silent, or quiet down, or stop fighting.

(Reply to this)


[info]italiangm
2005-11-12 06:06 pm UTC (link)
Did you actually think about what you were going to write before you wrote it? Did you actually do *any* research into the issues beforehand?

The utter lack of awareness of the issues suggests the answer is "no" to both questions.

(Reply to this)


[info]fatchocobo
2005-11-12 06:10 pm UTC (link)
I don't mean to be mean, I have nothing against gays

This is just another version of "I'm not racist/bigoted/anti-gay, but..." in that it's usually followed by a statement that is exactly what you said it wasn't. Just saying.

I'm just making a suggestion, I know you guys have every american right to be proud, and show it - it's just don't get all mad and complain when some people don't like what they see.

Um...for one, I don't have an American right to be anything, since I'm not American, I'm English. Secondly, I'm bipolar, skhizophrenic, childfree and bisexual. I'm not ashamed of any of these, but I don't hide them.
Three out of four of these things I can't control. If people don't like what they see, they're not the kind of people I want to be near, and frankly, why would I want to please these people anyway?

(Reply to this)


[info]felis_ultharus
2005-11-12 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Being quiet has never, ever, ever helped in politics. If we'd been quiet about it, no one would ever have allowed us our equality.

Here in Canada, it was political protest that did it. In the Us, it took the Stonewall riots. It was never the men in suits with jobs "lawyer" and "doctor" who did the work -- it was always the radicals. Drag queens lead the Stonewall rebellion. Harry Hay was a communist. Fact is, comfortable people who can buy their safety rarely stick out their neck for anyone.

Ironically, now that we're on verge of getting our rights, some people are actually ready to sweep people like that under rug -- pretending no drag queens, no clubs, mo music, no writers, no queer culture at all -- in the hopes of making themselves palatable to the straight world. I think that's the worst possible strategyu, to persecute our own for being different.

I don't need to conform to get my rights. And I refuse to. My rights are my rights because I am a human being and born with the right to equality. I harm no one, no one suffers because I'm myself, and anyone who tries to take away my rights because of the way I dress or talk or act, when I'm not harming them, is frankly person worth the smallest iota of respect.

Plus, people forget that the gay pride parade is a parade -- like Mardi Gras. People dress up, people celebrate, people go a little wild. It's a celebration of freedom. And it's no less wild than Mardi Gras, though since Mardi Gras is mostly heterosexual, nobody complains. And no one complains that St Patrick's Day reinforces stereotypes of the Irish, though with all that alcohol flowing and the colour green plastered over everything and giant leprecauns, it does.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]amphibian23
2005-11-12 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Perfectly articulated; thank you.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]deify_bd_wong, 2005-11-12 08:31 pm UTC

[info]keeponsmilin505
2005-11-12 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Sure, being open and proud might cause people to be uncomfortable and angry, but indifference on the part of the people and government is not going to win any rights for us either.
How do you expect us to gain basic rights without fighting for them? It has been shown that we are not going to be given rights such as marriage without demanding them, so that is what needs to be done.
Perhaps attention is what is needed. If we are noticed enough by society, perhaps people will realize that homosexuality is not as horrifying as they thought, and begin to consider it more acceptable. The more noticable, the more common, the closer we are to gaining our rights.
Now that gays have begun to be noticed, one of the worst things to do would be do sit down and back off - it would be considered giving up, and we would be back where we started.
So no - we are not going to fade into the background and disappear.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]the_faery_queen
2005-11-12 06:19 pm UTC (link)
see i actually think it does the opposite, to be honest. i think that having the marches draws attentions to gays as an idea, as something being paraded arund, as something different from everone else. it won't make people recognise that it isn't horrifying, it will make people think that gays are a different part of humankind, not a normal part of society. i think that gays should be proud of who and what they are, but not make their different sex drive seperate them. because it IS just about sex, it doesn't make them a different person. they are still people. but having big parades where they are identifing themselves AS something different, i think, is damaging.

granted i know this is society's fault. it likes to push us forward as sexual obkects and nothing more than that. but i think we need to see it as part of who they are, not the whole of what they are.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]keeponsmilin505, 2005-11-12 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 06:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plasticfucktard, 2005-11-12 08:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keeponsmilin505, 2005-11-12 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plasticfucktard, 2005-11-12 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]techiedude04, 2005-11-12 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keeponsmilin505, 2005-11-12 07:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]techiedude04, 2005-11-12 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]techiedude04, 2005-11-12 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:18 pm UTC

[info]the_faery_queen
2005-11-12 06:16 pm UTC (link)
actually, i am not gay, i just support gay rights. and in a way, i do agree with you. i think that people who feel the need to push that they are a certain way is actually making the situationw orse. they are putting themselves out there as something seperate. we're gay, we're different. when they aren't. they are just people who like people the same sex as themselves. i think its good that they are proud about it, we should all be proud of what is true to ourselves, but pushing it, having marches and so on, in my opinion, makes it seem as though they are either overcompensating OR that they are different from everyone else. and it is encouraging that difference, making being gay out to be more than it is, that i think is stopping the gay rights movement. i think that if people were more aware of gays as being normal humanbeings, who just happen to like people the same sex as themselves, and less as a whole different thing, then people would probably care less about them and not care about the marriage thing.

i mean, i am a feminist. i am also asexual and childfree. and i realise that it is the ones who are the loudest (feminists usually) who draw the most attention to the cause, that actually do the most damage to it. people think that all feminists are like that. that we all hate men, are gay, don't wear bras and so on. i think that we need a level where we accept people for what they are, that we don't care about it anymore. and i personally think marches don't do this.

if it was a protest over a specific cause. if they went on gay marriage protest marches, then yes, fair enough. but your, lets have a gay pride march every year, that's different.

but at the same time, it is more about them celebtrating their sexuality and feeling free and happy with it, than it is about getting a message across

so yeah. two minds. on one hand i can see that the marches can damage a cause, making gays out to be something different than everyone else. on the other i can see how its about them wanting to celebtrate what they are. and everyone has the right to do that.

but i dont' think gay marriage right will ever 'slip through' not when the fundies are around.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]apollotiger
2005-11-12 06:24 pm UTC (link)
Er. See, the thing I'm noticing is that the common thread is that you two aren't gay. I don't mean to be snotty or elitist, but honestly, I don't know that a straight person can understand what it feels like to be gay …

Maybe we're making the situation worse by standing up for who we are … but conditions have improved since we started. Canada allows same-sex unions. I sincerely doubt that would have happened if we'd stayed meek and quiet.

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(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 09:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keeponsmilin505, 2005-11-12 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-13 01:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]modscrew, 2005-11-12 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-12 06:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-12 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lypanov, 2005-11-12 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plasticfucktard, 2005-11-12 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 09:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plasticfucktard, 2005-11-12 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-13 01:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-13 01:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plasticfucktard, 2005-11-12 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-13 01:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 06:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 06:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]italiangm, 2005-11-12 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]modscrew, 2005-11-12 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2005-11-12 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_faery_queen, 2005-11-12 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melamoo, 2005-11-12 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melamoo, 2005-11-12 10:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shibaiko, 2005-11-14 01:11 am UTC

[info]techiedude04
2005-11-12 06:28 pm UTC (link)
"Sure it's one thing to be proud of being gay, another to tell people that you're proud, but maybe having parades, riots, groups like this are just drawing attention to yourselves? Maybe if you guys weren't so pushy about it, the laws for gay marriage would slip through."

Apparently you have never been opressed.

Have you ever once witnessed a situation of this size and intensity simply come to a peaceful conclusion without either side of the battle doing anything? The answer is no. No situation has EVER come to a peaceful conclsion by simply ignoring it. Not a conflict between friends, between neighboors, between countries, and definately not a comflict over social norms.

Do you know what women had to go through to finally be cincidered independent of their husbands and fathers? To be able to vote? To be able to own their own property?

Do you know what African Americans had to go through to even be concidered American citizens?

In both situations many people had to speak out to be heard, they had to ruffle some feathers and offend many a person in order to finally be equal.

No, it's not the ideal solution, and no, it's not easy or fun. But unfortunately America doesn't seem to care what people have to say until they yell, dance, and parade with thousands of individuals in cities across the country.

The Holocaust:
Did you know that homosexuals were arrested and taken to concentration camps? They were forced to endure all of the same hardships as the jewish prisoners. The homosexual prisoners had to wear a pink triangle sewn onto their clothes.

Homosexuals have endured a lot. We have been persecuted since biblical times (check your bible) and we are just about sick and tired of this crap.

America is suppose to be a land of freedom. Unfortunately ceratin dumbass leaders refuse to acknowledge that fact and have chosen to attempt a constitutional ban on happiness, targeted specifially at gay citizens.

Now you tell me, how would you like your entire life to be persecuted by bigots and homophobes? How would you like to be told by "elected" officials that your entire life is wrong and that without having actually commited a crime yourself, that you should be punished by having your rights taken away?

Isn't having your rights taken away something to fight? Wouldn't you petition? Wouldn't you organize people to help you (ie parades and riots)? Wouldn't you do everything you legally can to ensure that you have the chance to live a happy life?

THAT is why we parade. THAT is why we riot. THAT is why we organize groups. THAT is why we fight. And THAT is why we fight, every day, every night, in almost every city in the country.

(Reply to this)

drawing attention to yourself gets you nowhere
[info]amphibian23
2005-11-12 06:33 pm UTC (link)
http://www.achievement.org/achievers/par0/headers/par0_image.gif
Definitive proof.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: drawing attention to yourself gets you nowhere
[info]keeponsmilin505
2005-11-12 07:01 pm UTC (link)
here, here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Not to... - [info]amphibian23, 2005-11-13 12:57 pm UTC

[info]emarkienna
2005-11-12 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Except gay people have had far fewer rights in the past - eg, homosexual acts being considered illegal - so I don't know how you conclude that raising awareness makes things worse. It is through raising awareness that things have changed for the better, and we have got to a stage where gay marriage is starting to be allowed (btw, I'm not gay, but I am bi).

I'm not sure what you mean by riots - I doubt anyone here would claim that riots are a good thing, or justify the actions of some minority of people.

Groups like this are for us to discuss things that are happening, and are not intended to "drawing attention".

There are arguments for or against marches, but they are a good way of raising awareness in a peaceful manner. This applies to other cases, whether it's people campaigning for BDSM rights, or people protesting against a war.

As for being "pushy", it is the anti-gay crowd who are pushy, to the extent of wanting to change the constitution to outlaw gay marriage, or wanting to criminalise acts in private between consenting adults. We have to be "pushy" in return to stop things going back to the way they used to be (and still are in many countries).

Gay/bi people here are only pushy in the same way that straight people are open about their sexuality every single day. However, last time I looked, gay people weren't being pushy and suggesting that heterosexuality be outlawed, or only same sex marriage be allowed!

(Reply to this)


[info]matrixfrog
2005-11-12 07:15 pm UTC (link)
I don't have much to say to [info]triangle_world that hasn't already been said, except this:

Thank you for being brave enough to come into this community and tell us how you feel. Whether or not your post was homophobic, which is obviously debatable, it is easy to see why it might come across that way, and I think it's much better for people who disagree with the gay community in any way to say so, knowing that they might be criticized for it, because then we can actually have discussions like this. If this community were made up entirely of people who felt the same way about everything, it would be a preaching-to-the-choir-fest, which is far less useful than this post.

Thank you.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]lavendershade
2005-11-12 09:07 pm UTC (link)
i agree, i like this comment :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]triangle_world
2005-11-12 07:15 pm UTC (link)
Okay, you all are making valid points - and I agree I sounded like a fascist earlier but...

You guys say you are just like "anyone else" but you're not, you're going against human nature, and although it doesn't cause any harm, people are going to have something to say about it - because they are always going to have something to say about everything so get used to it.

You guys have every right to act the way you do, etc - but a lot of the way you act has an effect on the way people feel about a certain situation.

Parading around saying "omg i'm gay" and doing flamboyant stereotypical gay/girly things is just like saying "nah nah nah nah nah nah" to people who are totally against, and obviously people who are against it aren't going to take it and they're going to fight - just as hard as you guys are fighting - to end it.

Sometimes gays smother people because they wave it in front of peoples faces, which is why people don't like it and they try and do something about it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]italiangm
2005-11-12 07:27 pm UTC (link)
you're going against human nature

Homosexuality wouldn't have existed within humans for thousands of years if it didn't have a biological/evolutionary payoff.

Stop repeating the recorded message like a parrot and do some friggin research, fer crissake!

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keeponsmilin505, 2005-11-12 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fatchocobo, 2005-11-12 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2005-11-12 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]matrixfrog, 2005-11-12 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2005-11-12 08:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 07:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]apollotiger, 2005-11-12 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 07:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]superdrive, 2006-01-10 08:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ziggystardust13, 2005-11-12 09:37 pm UTC

[info]lypanov
2005-11-12 07:24 pm UTC (link)
i'm straight. i wish you other straights wouldn't tongue in front of me. any chance you self righteous nut cases can *please stop* parading your sexuality?

generalisations are us!

(Reply to this)


[info]matrixfrog
2005-11-12 07:41 pm UTC (link)
We're not like anyone else, obviously. You like girls. I don't. That much is clear. But if I told you the history of my relationship with my boyfriend, it would sound just like the story of any other high school relationship. Around school, people generally treat us the same as they would any other couple.

In the real world, however, outside of our high school, there are couples a lot like any other couple. They've been together for 5 years or 10 years or 50 years, and they're in love, and they live together and pay their bills and have jobs and go about their lives. And it just so happens that they are of the same sex.

No one told them to be gay. They were just born that way. I've always lived in predominantly white areas, and I'm white, so when I see black people, it's slightly out of the ordinary for me. It's not something I see every day. Does that mean it's against human nature? No. It's just a certain way of being that's different from what I'm used to. I see black people on TV being "in-your-face" about their blackness, using the stereotypical "black voice" and so on, and I either accept it or just change the channel.

The bottom line is: It is human nature to love and want to be loved.

(Reply to this)


[info]jimpy
2005-11-12 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Can we please just boot [info]triangle_world? Obviously, they are too stupid to realise that the crap which they are told in the mass-media and other typically religious right circles is just that, complete crap.

The fact that [info]triangle_world thinks that being gay is against human nature is definitive proof of this, at least to me. Ah, hun, perhaps you haven't realised there is a world outside the little bubble you call modern day America ('I know you guys have every american right to be proud, and show it' - I'm not fucking American, and I don't want some stupid American right - believe it or not, there are 'gays' who aren't American! gasp!)

Look at Ancient Greece, look at all the other times in history where there have been shown to be us 'gays'. And no, it's not just a Western World thing, and guess what? A lot of our 'morals and values', in the western world, and more so in the eastern world these days was dictated by morals and values that are at least 200-300 years old, a lot of them came out the Victorian era, in England. Does anyone remember times in the past where being vocal did get you somewhere... ho hum... Rosa Parks anyone? Martin Luther King Jr.?, Malcolm X? Nelson Mandela? Gandhi? Or perhaps we should think on a larger scale. Did someone say the French and Russian Revolutions? Oh no! Don't be silly - they never happened because of activism, that was because of reformism... duh. I'm so dumb.

Oh, and this goes for [info]the_faery_queen too - saying that being radical doesn't achieve as much and does damage ot a cause is utter stupidity. I won't bother repeating much of what was being said, but if it weren't for radical feminism and radical queer/gay rights activism, you wouldn't be sitting in your cosy little seat extolling the virtues of conservative feminism, because you'd probably be slaving away in the kitchen to that bastard of a husband who raped you when you were 15. Conservatism and the religious right are pushing your views here, it would seem. Stop listening to fucking O'Reilly and bloody FOX, cause even FOX know they're shit, and it's a shame the rest of the world don't seem to realise that yet.

I don't go on gay rights parades to celebrate who I am - if I wanted to do that, I'd fuck some hot guy, thanks. I go on gay rights marches to show people like you two that aside from being proud of who I am, I also want equality, not tolerance (yes! there's a difference!). I want to walk down the street with my boyfriend (not that I have one, but for argument's sake), hand in hand, pash in the middle of the street, anywhere the fuck I want, and to have no-one around me bat an eyelid. I don't want some fucking dick yelling at me as they go past in their SUV/ Sportscar saying 'You fucking poofs! Go and get AIDS and die!' I don't want to be stopped in the street and beaten up cause I like to suck cock, when I 'should' be licking vadge, according to brilliant orators such as Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter. But maybe you don't realise that's what happens, cause it doesn't happen to you.

Maybe you want to realise what it's like for us on an everyday basis - well here, I'm not going to apologise for being a nasty bastard, cause you two are stupid pieces of shit if you keep saying this, and it's better to expunge yourself from the gene pool now, so as to avoid anymore idiots on this earth. I can bet you probably didn't like me saying that - but trust me, you get used to similar things.

And [info]triangle_world, if I ever do run into you (doubtful), I plan to pash some guy right in front of you, I hope that it makes you squirm, and I hope it makes you consider that perhaps you shouldn't be squirming and perhaps you have some prejudices you weren't aware of.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]matrixfrog
2005-11-12 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Good plan. Don't like what the guy has to say, just block him. Way to fight for the cause. "Oh no," [info]triangle_world will suddenly think to himself, "They booted me?! Heavens! I better stop being ignorant and hateful right away. In fact, I'm going to write my congressperson and tell them to allow gay marriage in my state, right now. And I'll donate my life savings to HRC immediately."

So tell me again, why do you want to boot this guy?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]jimpy, 2005-11-12 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]matrixfrog, 2005-11-12 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felis_ultharus, 2005-11-12 08:28 pm UTC

[info]plasticfucktard
2005-11-12 08:50 pm UTC (link)
1. Laws don't "slip through." SOMEONE has to push it through. Maybe that someone tries to slip it past everybody else, but there has to be someone "being pushy" to get that law made.

2. Everything everyone else already said.

3. The idea of suggesting to gays that being quiet and passive will get them their rights strikes me about as ridiculous as saying to an abused woman that maybe if she would stop crying so much, her husband would stop hitting her.

(Reply to this)


[info]lavendershade
2005-11-12 09:05 pm UTC (link)
and 120 comments later... XD hahaha

(Reply to this)


[info]ziggystardust13
2005-11-12 09:29 pm UTC (link)
Fading into the backgroud is NOT. GOING. TO. HELP. Why can't you people (and by you people, I mean the ones who always have to remind everyone that they're "not against gays") get that through your heads? Christ....you sound like the administration at my college. Be proud, but don't be visible--that's what the administration here says. The pretentious, bigoted administration.

(Reply to this)


[info]madam_redrum
2005-11-12 09:35 pm UTC (link)
I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said, but I want to say my piece.

I don't label my sexuality as I have liked both males and females in the past, some would call that bisexual, I call it being infatuated or in love, depends on the degree of how much i know and like that person. I'm currently dating a male (have been for the past 15 and a half months still very happy) now people call me straight, not bi or lesbian, and it all confuses me because I don't see how my partner's sex can totally define me as a human being.

When I was dating females I didn't go out and shave my head, start lifting weights or wear boxer shorts or do ANYTHING a sterotypical lesiban would do. Except for caring about another female in the same way you would care about the person you're dating, perhaps even more so. I still went to my ballet classes, still wore skirts, still enjoyed gossiping and running around giggling like typical "girly girl" there was NOTHING flamboyant about my being a lesbian and it has been, in my experience, that if a person is "flamboyantly gay" then it is simply because it IS in their NATURE. It has nothing to do with letting the world know they're gay, just that they have very loud personalities. I have known males who identify themselves as straight who enjoy going to musicals (just like my afore mentioned partner). I have also known (straight) males who love going to rose festivals because they simply like roses but are at the same time mad car fanatics.

As it has been so beautifully put before, it is simply human nature to love and be loved. That is perhaps why I don't label my sexuality, because I simply want to love and be loved for who I am as a person not because I have a vagina. I don't believe that a person should dismiss a person as a potential life partner just because they have the same genetalia.

"There are as many ways to live as there are people in this world" (I loved Harriet the Spy)

(Reply to this)


[info]triangle_world
2005-11-12 10:01 pm UTC (link)
You guys are taking things way out of context and putting words in my mouth,

First thing - whoever put us on this planet, be it science, or be it god - they obviously had a reason for making males have penises and females having vaginas,

SURE IT'S OTHER PEOPLES CHOICES WHETHER THEY PERFER COCK AND PUSSY, IT DOESN'T MATTER, YOU'RE RIGHT, LOVE IS WHAT MATTERS.

But SINCE it's been so traditional all these years (with some exceptions, but not enough) I think in the last twenty years gays have really escalated their "NOTICE US PLZ" meter, especially since it's becoming more and more accepted in the media, and there's nothing wrong with that it's just some people feel again, smothered by everything - because they are weak, they are cowards, and they are very unaccepting - and you know this, i'm sure.

Maybe if you hang low, and not spread everything so far - at least until you get get more rights - you'll be accepted more?

Because when you ask for rights, all you're asking for is acceptance.

Just keep it in mind.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]triangle_world
2005-11-12 10:05 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and btw - I'm not prejudice, I'm very open about my sexuality, and I don't mind seeing naked men - I don't squirm in my chair, it just does not arouse me, so if you think you're going to lay the whole homophobic card on me, it isn't going to work.

I also have traits that are very common amongst stereotypical gay men, and I've noticed that the more low key I keep those traits, the less I get bothered - but still, I also am very comfortable with my sexuality to go out in public in a pink shirt - or admit I think Ryan Cabrera is cute.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]theotherme000, 2005-11-13 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]theotherme000, 2005-11-13 04:46 am UTC

[info]playthefool
2005-11-13 04:24 am UTC (link)
Nice half-assed apology there, Scooter.

(Reply to this)


[info]jimpy
2005-11-13 05:43 am UTC (link)
Oh god. Your new post and that crappy apologise just prove that nothing we've been saying has sunk in at all.

You're an absolute tool. You have no concept of solidarity, or of oppression. Read up on them before you go spouting about things you obviously have no idea about. I'm sick of reading your shit, because it's taking us away from what we should be doing, fighting for our rights.

Oh, and p.s. it is important to have homosexuality in every species, as it goes some way to preventing inbreeding and other genetic disasters. They actually did studies on it. E-gad! I hear you say. Read up, Sparky.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]spaced_in
2005-11-14 12:15 pm UTC (link)
I agree youobviosly have no idea. If homosexuality is unnatural then why do so many social animals exhibit homosexuality? It obvioulsly provides an evolutionry advantage. In social animals the survival of self and your own genes are not necessarily the most important outcomes. Rather the group outcome is paramount. In some species only one breeding pair will have children while the rest look after offspring...what perpose does sex serve here beyond a sopcial glue and forming bonds? What about teh fact that having sex with more members o a social group and alpha males may raise an individuals social status in the group to that of having mating/breeding rights?

You ahve a simple mind....but then you are 14.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]jimpy
2005-11-13 05:47 am UTC (link)
Oh my. I just realised something. Check this guys LJ profile - he's 14 years old.

Perhaps he's not stupid after all, but simply hasn't got a clue. Tsk tsk.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]lavendershade
2005-11-13 06:58 am UTC (link)
lol, i checked right after i posted a comment, that's why i haven't really been getting into it :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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