drobertbaker ([info]drobertbaker) wrote in [info]animelyricsanon,
@ 2008-03-01 23:11:00
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[japanese question] 言わないとわかんないよね何事も
言わないとわかんないよね何事も

I'm having trouble with this one.

a) To not say anything is to not know anything, no matter what..

b) Whatever it is, you have to say it to know it.

c) Not saying it is not knowing it, nothing more.

d) Everything has to be said to be understood.

It's none of these, is it?

---
 約束はいらないから
yakusoku wa iranai kara
I don't need a promise anymore

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[info]aohitomi
2008-03-02 05:29 am UTC (link)
Is there something that comes after this that might give me more context? I'm so rusty with my Japanese that anything would help. ^_^

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[info]datenshikun
2008-03-02 01:15 pm UTC (link)
You had it right with somewhere between b) and c).

わからない here is roughly equivalent to 気づかない.

"You have to be told (by another person) to realize something. (The same thing is true for anything)."

It basically means you can't come upon certain truths all on your own. You need someone to point them out for you.

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[info]dynamint
2008-03-02 01:45 pm UTC (link)
If it was "you have to be told", wouldn't it be 言われないとわからない ?

I thought it was more like "If you don't say it (out loud), you won't realize it."

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[info]datenshikun
2008-03-02 05:52 pm UTC (link)
You know, the more I look at it, I think you're right. Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking.

So it would be basically be pointing to a situation like, for example, "only by actually saying 'I love you' out loud did I realize how deep my feelings for you were", I suppose?

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[info]lowzl
2008-03-04 12:40 pm UTC (link)
It is not always necessary to use the passive in Japanese to express what would be expressed with a passive in English.

I think datenshikun was correct the first time.

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[info]dynamint
2008-03-05 01:39 am UTC (link)
To tell the truth, I was parsing it first in Japanese, not retranslating the English datenshikun gave. With the plain negative, I don't see how it could be expressing the idea that other people have to say "it" before the speaker understands. The subject of 言わない and 分からない should be the same でしょう?

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[info]lowzl
2008-03-05 03:09 am UTC (link)
It is not necessary for the subject of verbs in the same sentence to be the same either, even if the subjects are omitted for the second verb. (Whereas in English, there is such a requirement. Keywords: co-reference, switch-reference.) Furthermore the subject must be different anyway - recall that the subject of wakaru is the thing which is understood, not the person who is understanding.

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[info]drobertbaker
2008-03-06 12:03 am UTC (link)
I should have given the context as aohitomi suggested. You just can't get too much context when trying to understand Japanese!

This is part of a very fascinating story arc from げんしけん2, which I think even our dear departed Ryuuji-san would agree shows a fairly　accurate reflection of Japanese life.

大野 has previously spent a year in America. Two of the friends she made there suddenly drop in to see コミフェス (コミケット). Hilarity ensues in the resulting culture clash.

Although 大野 is a tall and well-developed girl, the blond, blue-eyed Angela towers over her in every way. She also has the classic American big nose and lips.

Angela is very bold. The Japanese are shocked when she physically flirts with the Japanese men and takes her top off in front of them without a second thought.

The presentation is particularly fascinating for the translation oriented. This is a Japanese show where the Japanese 声優 are speaking the English dialog written by the
Japanese writers. Japanese subtitles are displayed for the audience.

This final exchange carried the point of the show, but I just didn't get it.

Here are the English spoken lines and the Japanese subtitles:

Angela: Japanese people are really sensible.
日本人ってほんとよく気がきくよね
(She means tactful. At one point, Angela remarks that in Japan, the butlers are very sensible. She meant that the service people - 執事 are very sensitive - よく気がきく to her needs.)

大野: Ah, yes.
え？　ええ、そうね

Angela: But, we understand people too, naturally.
でも私達だって人の気持ち位わかるよ

Angela: Still, we must say something to be understood.
言わないとわかんないよね何事も

大野: I don't understand what you are talking about.
さっきから何の事を言ってるのかわからないよ

Angela: Well, I'm not telling you.
言わない

Zhen Lin's comment that the subjects of the two phrases needn't match was the key for my finally understanding the exchange.

She's saying that "If I don't say whatever it is, other people won't know it."

In other words, she is defending the virtues of the American straightforward style versus the Japanese tactful approach.

Then her last line is a little joke to drive her point home.

It's interesting that 大野 couldn't figure it out either.

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