anarchists: HIV & crack cocaine and the CIA

Maria (

bloochik) wrote in

anarchists,
@ 2005-06-28 10:29:00

Current mood:

skeptical

HIV & crack cocaine and the CIA
What does everyone think about the conspiracy theory that the CIA created HIV and crack cocaine in a lab in order to spread/distribute them to kill off people of color?

Is there any evidence at all for this, or are these just conspiracy theories people pull outta their asses?

Any (credible) websites?

(Post a new comment)

postrodent
2005-06-28 02:53 pm UTC (link)

I don't think the CIA *created* crack. I think there are plenty of inventive and creative druggies out there -- how many of you have made a pipe out of common household objects? -- and that crack was developed by one or more such people. However, the evidence is pretty much incontrovertible that parties connected with the CIA started dealing crack in LA, in places and quantities that it hadn't been before, in the early 80s, and that the CIA has been heavily involved with drug trafficking at various times and places (opiates in Southeast Asia in the 60s and 70s, coca in South and Central America in the 80s, probably opiates again in central Asia more recently).

I have no information about the AIDS theory and thus suspend judgment, but I'd love to hear more.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	punkymunky21 2005-06-28 04:00 pm UTC (link)
	Do you know of any good web sites or books for the CIAs connection with crack that you mentioned here? I've heard that before, and I believe it to be true, but I'd like to read more about it. Thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

postrodent, 2005-06-28 04:17 pm UTC

(no subject) -

bloochik, 2005-06-28 04:40 pm UTC

	mackave 2005-06-28 03:12 pm UTC (link)
	The idea that HIV was engineered by the govt. is ridiculous. As far as crack is concerned, the authoritative book is "Dark Alliance" by Gary Webb. He was a journalist who broke the story for the San Jose paper, and was somewhat persecuted for it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bloochik 2005-06-28 03:36 pm UTC (link)
	oh i think i heard of him... didn't he die recently? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bloochik 2005-06-28 03:38 pm UTC (link)
	oh and I asked about the HIV thing cuz I read about it in some zine. And, of course, anything that some random punk kid writes in a zine has to be true! sarcasm (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mydayiscoming 2005-06-28 03:41 pm UTC (link)
	no it isn't. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

mackave, 2005-06-28 05:10 pm UTC

my_insurrection
2005-06-28 03:40 pm UTC (link)

HIV was naturally occuring in chimps when to save money they used chimps instead of monkeys as a base for the polo vaccine in africa. Now there you could easily say that they knew aids was in the chimps and wanted to destroy the people of africa while looking good cause they were tring to save them, but you cant prove it. The lead dr. guy says he used monkeys, but there's evidence in his files and the people that were helping him that say they did use chimps, but that doesnt prove they knew they were replacing one crippling virus with another.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Get a clue

jtguy
2008-04-22 04:59 pm UTC (link)

This was proven to be false and Ed Hooper's book has since been discredited. They went back and literally tested the stocks used for those vaccination campaigns and found NO traces of SIV or HIV. It's this kind of paranoid bullshit that feeds paranoia and keeps people from vaccinating their kids (yea, I want my infant to die of diptheria and measles cuz the man's trying to control me).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Get a clue -

bloochik, 2008-04-22 11:01 pm UTC

aids probably was created by scientists

mydayiscoming
2005-06-28 03:41 pm UTC (link)

this article is from an anti-state communist perspective, and it emphasizes that scientists had the ability to create aids in the early seventies (a fact) and that all of the science's "explanations" of where AIDS came from have been shown to be false or doctored up. the article is very biased and does not pretend to be objective and constantly calls these people pigs, etc., etc., BUT it does highlight the fact that it was possible and that scientists have made phony evidence to cover someone's tracks, and that it would be profitable to try to create similar viruses (not intentionally to infect other people, but perhaps for research)

this article does not argue that scientists intended to kill others, but more that even if this virus was an accident, it came about because science is put to the service of capitalism

http://www.geocities.com/icgcikg/communism/c8_aids.htm

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: aids probably was created by scientists

odubtaig
2005-06-28 04:44 pm UTC (link)

Oh FFS, I've got as far as "Science is fundamentally inhuman: not only in its applications, but in its foundations." and decided this was bollocks but chose to plough on anyway.

The author all and at once chooses to brand scientists as morons (for saying AIDS was a 'gay' disease which they never did) while attributing RNA manipulation that I serously doubt we could manage today. The author a) hasn't the first fucking clue about science and b) is a fucking moron overall.

More specifically, HIV has been traced back to a crossover between two related viruses which chimpanzees carry (chimps have never actually carried HIV themselves).

Now, if you please, we have enough crap to fight without bullshit conspiracy theories by people who declare all science to be capitalist oppression.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: aids probably was created by scientists -

odubtaig, 2005-06-28 05:04 pm UTC

Re: aids probably was created by scientists -

mackave, 2005-06-28 05:18 pm UTC

	Re: aids probably was created by scientists mackave 2005-06-28 04:59 pm UTC (link)
	Even if you accept that scientists could have created HIV in the early 70's, that doesn't help explain the presence of the virus in an African patient in 1959. Did they have the technology then? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: aids probably was created by scientists -

mydayiscoming, 2005-07-05 12:42 am UTC

	intractablecunt 2005-06-28 04:17 pm UTC (link)
	i dont know about the coke thing cause coke is quite expensive and a rich mans drug. hiv is another story though. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	boyamihardcore 2005-06-28 06:06 pm UTC (link)
	crack is, however, NOT a rich man's drug (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

intractablecunt, 2005-06-28 06:21 pm UTC

(no subject) -

tender_comrade, 2005-06-29 08:17 am UTC

(no subject) -

boyamihardcore, 2005-06-30 11:45 pm UTC

	crudocrust 2005-06-28 04:29 pm UTC (link)
	Read up on the Gary Web articles as were allready listed. He showed that in the 80's the US government funded the selling of crack cocaine in largely black areas to help pay for arms to the contras. (Reply to this)

foobarintel
2005-06-28 04:48 pm UTC (link)

Read "The CIA Makes Science Fiction Unexciting #2"

This zine explains the history of US chemical biological testing and development, how the HIV virus cannot scientifically be related to AIDS, CIA and military documents requesting the creation of a virus with the clinical description of AIDS, and how AIDS death statistics have been inflated for the last 20 years when the supposed "miracle cure" drugs kill the patients even faster than AIDS.

Also the relationship of the SIV (HIV in Simmians->Monkeys/etc) only shares ~40% of the same genetic code as HIV. Anyone who has studied biology knows that for it to mutate to a point where it's 60% different in only 20-100 years is pretty much bull.

It's a SUPER good read and I got mine over @ Covert Coercion (http://ccdistro.doesntexist.org) for only $1.50 postage paid. Plus all the information is backed up so it's not just some Zine'ster shooting off his/her mouth.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	bloochik 2005-06-28 04:57 pm UTC (link)
	that was actually the zine where I first heard about the HIV/CIA conspiracy theory :P I don't remember much of it right now but I do recall at the time thinking it was bullshit. I have it at home. Maybe I'll re-read it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

foobarintel, 2005-06-28 05:05 pm UTC

(no subject) -

music_is_life, 2005-06-30 12:08 am UTC

odubtaig
2005-06-28 05:11 pm UTC (link)

1) How, exactly, does it explain how HIV and AIDS are not related? Considering HIV (that's Human Immuno-Deficiency Virus) attacks the immune system destroying white cells and AIDS (Acquired Immuno-Deficiency Syndrome) is defined as a fatal lack of these same white blood cells, how exactly are the two unrelated?
2) SIV is not the only virus involved
3) How exactly do you propose these scientists manipulated the RNA to such a great degree in the 1970s when much of the capability to maniuplate genetics has only come about in the last two decades
4) How do you know these military documents aren't forgeries?

Has anyone here got more than a high-school level of biology behind them? I've never seen any of this bullshit espoused by anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

foobarintel, 2005-06-28 05:16 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-29 01:02 pm UTC

(no subject) -

odubtaig, 2005-06-29 02:14 pm UTC

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bloochik, 2005-06-29 04:59 pm UTC

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microcomputer, 2005-06-29 06:07 pm UTC

(no subject) -

odubtaig, 2005-06-29 09:10 pm UTC

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microcomputer, 2005-06-29 06:36 pm UTC

(no subject) -

odubtaig, 2005-06-29 08:46 pm UTC

(no subject) -

microcomputer, 2005-06-29 09:40 pm UTC

(no subject) -

odubtaig, 2005-06-29 10:08 pm UTC

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microcomputer, 2005-06-29 09:44 pm UTC

(no subject) -

odubtaig, 2005-06-29 09:45 pm UTC

	mackave 2005-06-28 05:16 pm UTC (link)
	Please everybody, read this. http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/profiles/gilbert/aidsconsp.html And think a bit before you accept some whacko conspiracy theory at face value just because it might seem to agree with your politics. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	intractablecunt 2005-06-28 06:23 pm UTC (link)
	unrelated other than i love david gilbert he's my baby's daddy;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	adrenaline3426 2005-06-28 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	in a health class i took last year, the teacher told the class that HIV was created to kill off colored people and homosexuals. he also said it was "supposedly" created by the government. he said it like he actually knew what he was talking about...so maybe there's something true behind that? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	reverendgraham 2005-06-29 01:50 am UTC (link)
	maybe your teacher was just off his nut. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

adrenaline3426, 2005-06-29 02:19 am UTC

	110679 2005-06-28 08:12 pm UTC (link)
	I have heard a couple of articles that state that HIV was created by a government, But it was apparthide south africa, not the US. Another vertion goes that it was created by the US in order to woo South africa. (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2005-06-29 01:11 pm UTC (link)
	I think people can argue about this all they want but what it really comes down to is what you believe. I believe that the hiv/aids theory is true, I also believe that the drug theory is true. (Reply to this) (Thread)

halfcuban
2005-09-03 01:28 pm UTC (link)

The "Drug theory" has changed over the years. Intially all the deniers blamed needle users and other "undesirables" for giving themselves the disease by their "immoral" behaviour. Duebure was one of these idiots. Than when they started to be proven wrong, HAART drugs came on the scene, and with their toxic side effects, the deniers latched on to another convenient theory.

I'm a person who is fairly radical and agrees that alot of things are the fault of alot of the powers that be. But not this one. The only one that IS responsible is the lack of response by anyone with the ability to do something about it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

halfcuban
2005-09-03 09:28 am UTC (link)

The funny thing is seeing gay/bi/trans people involved in HIV/AIDS conspiracies, since it is many of the originating conspiracy theorists who essentially came out and said that AIDS was caused by immoral behaviour (in this case anal sex and drug usage) and not by an actual disease. Duesburg, who is mentioned above, is famous for essentially blaming drug addicts and fags for doing it to themselves. Of course, as the evidence mounted against him and other theorists, and certain elements of the queer community found symapthy with his cause, he changed his bloody tune. I refuse to buy into the conspiracy theorists just because what the conspiracy theorists offer as an alternative (that its caused by ones reckless immoral behaviour or the government made it up) is either an example of classist, homophobic hysteria, or an example of everyone piling on everything on the state (the Henry Kissinger syndrome of blaming everything on the American government and ignoring other actors or simple luck).

(Reply to this)

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