Tom Grahm ([info]tradskinkwanzaa) wrote in [info]anarchists,
@ 2005-12-23 14:37:00
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Are you sick of the typical bullshit related Christmas and Chanukah? We think it's time celebrate a holiday that is more related to the working class. As traditional skinheads we feel that the modern and radical holiday which is Kwanzaa is an excellent representation of the working class soul.

We are not welcoming racist boneheads who give us a bad name with their blatant ignorance, nor are we welcoming SHARPS, whose political obsessions would unfortunately distract us from the true spirit that is Kwanzaa. We are APOLITICAL TRADS who are interested in getting together for the first Traditional Skinhead Kwanzaa ever.

We are sick of the same old bullshit. The constant misconceptions about what a TRAD is and the way that socety misrepresents us. We are working class individuals with an interest in having a Kwanzaa celebration. Also, let's get really fucking smashed!

When:
Sunday Jan 01, 2006
at 8:00 PM

Where:
360 Newbury
Boston, MA 02115
US



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[info]theoldanarchist
2005-12-23 07:42 pm UTC (link)

My understanding---and if I am wrong, please correct me, comrades, but don't bash me for being incorrect---is that Kwanzaa was established in the '60s by a radical African-American organization that was a major rival of the Black Panthers. Said organization (the name of which escapes me) was bankrolled by the CIA.

So, in my humble opinion, fuck Kwanzaa, right along with Christmas...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tradskinkwanzaa
2005-12-23 08:03 pm UTC (link)
What are you doing in an anarchist community? You sound like a liberal. Kwanzaa is radical. You, on the other hand, are not.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-23 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sivi_volk, 2005-12-24 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]theoldanarchist, 2005-12-24 04:29 am UTC

[info]alifedenied
2005-12-23 08:04 pm UTC (link)
White middle class liberal diss!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2005-12-23 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I don't know about CIA backing, but a couple of Ron Karenga's groupies shot a couple of black panthers.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lema_oda
2005-12-23 09:56 pm UTC (link)
According to Wikipedia, "Kwanzaa was created by political activist Ron Karenga in California in 1966, during his leadership of the black nationalist United Slaves organization." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwaanza

I do seem to recall hearing that the United Slaves were rivals of the Panthers, and that the FBI engaged in a Cointelpro type operation to fan the flames of rivalry between the two orgnizations. i don't recall ever hearing that the United Slaves were bankrolled by the CIA, FBI or any other govt. agency.

However, even if that sordid history is true, does that per se invalidate Kwaanza? Or should we judge Kwaanza based on its own merits and the values it espouses? i don't think everything has to be black and white; that, in many cases, may be aiming for an impossible perfection; and i think we can condemn what's negative about some things, while recognizing their positive aspects, rather than eschewing them.

BTW the values of Kwaanza are:
Umoja (Unity)
Kujichagulia (Self-determination)
Ujima (Collective work and responsibility)
Ujamaa (Cooperative economics)
Nia (Purpose)
Kuumba (Creativity)
Imani (Faith)

These values sound vaguely (state) socialist since the black liberation and black nationalist groups of the '60s tended to be socialist; however, except for Imani, they seem like they would have some affinities with anarchist values and praxis, depending on how they're applied.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]theoldanarchist, 2005-12-24 04:25 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-12-23 07:53 pm UTC (link)
Kwanzaa's too commercialized. I celebrate Festivus. (which is today)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tradskinkwanzaa
2005-12-23 08:04 pm UTC (link)
You sound like a hippie.

Why are all these liberals and hippies in an anarchist community?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]microwavejesus, 2005-12-23 08:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:15 pm UTC
Weren't the May 1968 rioters hippies? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:13 pm UTC
Re: Weren't the May 1968 rioters hippies? - [info]goshi, 2005-12-23 09:05 pm UTC
Re: Weren't the May 1968 rioters hippies? - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 09:49 pm UTC
Re: Weren't the May 1968 rioters hippies? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-25 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]astarvingheart, 2005-12-23 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goshi, 2005-12-23 09:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teapolitik, 2005-12-23 09:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]coweatman, 2005-12-24 03:28 pm UTC

[info]boyamihardcore
2005-12-23 08:20 pm UTC (link)
I have to agree Festivus is my holiday of choice as well...

i mean with the low maintenance aluminum pole (which is not decorated with tinsel as it is distracting)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]anarchivist
2005-12-23 08:01 pm UTC (link)
If you're apolitical, then why are you posting this in [info]anarchists?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tradskinkwanzaa
2005-12-23 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Apolitical = no government.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]microwavejesus, 2005-12-23 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-23 08:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 09:22 pm UTC
Dumb - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:37 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 09:58 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:43 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 10:58 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 11:22 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 12:04 am UTC
Re: Dumb - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 12:57 am UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 01:08 am UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-24 10:15 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-23 10:24 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:50 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-24 10:11 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-24 11:14 pm UTC
Re: Dumb - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-25 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-23 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-24 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-23 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]astarvingheart, 2005-12-23 08:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nelsolidarida, 2005-12-23 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lema_oda, 2005-12-23 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 01:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]savestheworld, 2005-12-24 12:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]teapolitik, 2005-12-24 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adrunkencadence, 2005-12-24 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]teapolitik, 2005-12-24 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goshi, 2005-12-24 05:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 06:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sivi_volk, 2005-12-24 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 08:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]boyamihardcore, 2005-12-23 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sivi_volk, 2005-12-24 03:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anarchivist, 2005-12-23 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 03:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 06:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-25 03:26 am UTC

[info]xmobiusx
2005-12-23 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Haha!!!!

(Reply to this)


[info]ashtray_crotch
2005-12-23 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Im pretty freaked out right now.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]scamort
2005-12-23 11:50 pm UTC (link)
your icon is hypnotic.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressmin, 2005-12-24 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 09:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pivotal, 2005-12-24 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bloochik, 2005-12-24 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bloochik, 2005-12-24 04:51 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-12-23 08:47 pm UTC (link)
I'M SICK OF THE TYPICAL BULLSHIT-RELATED CHAUNUKAH! ALL PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THESE DAYS IS THE DRADELS, IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING THAKFUL FOR JEHOVAH GIVING US MORE OIL ANYMORE!

(Reply to this)

WTF?
[info]punkymunky21
2005-12-23 09:21 pm UTC (link)
Kwanzaa was originated by Ron Karenga, the leader of the black nationalist United Slaves organization, in 1966 to celebrate African American heritage and the Seven Principles of Blackness (or Nguzo Saba). Though I support solidarity between groups, be those groups racial, work oriented, politically aligned, etc., it seems somewhat rude for a group of predominantly white kids (skinheads) to claim a holiday celebrating African America heritage as their own. Few white people can claim to have experienced the same level of oppression and exploitation as African Americans have throughout their history.

The Seven Principles of Blackness, according to Karenga, are:

1. Umoja (Unity)
2. Kujichagulia (Self-determination)
3. Ujima (Collective work and responsibility)
4. Ujamaa (Cooperative economics)
5. Nia (Purpose)
6. Kuumba (Creativity)
7. Imani (Faith)

Though I'd argue that these are good principles for almost anyone to go by, it seems that some of them, such as cooperative economics, do not fall into an apolitical (which does mean not taking interest in politics) stance.

You mention the typical bullshit related Christmas and Chanukah, however you don't elaborate on what you mean by this. Though I happen to think that the consumerism and religiosity related to these two holidays is ridiculous (as an anti-capitalist atheist), Kwanzaa does not overcome these. Gifts are given on all 7 days and it is religously oriented. For example, often libations (liquid offerings given to the gods, or the rituals in which these are offered) are poured, an African custom that has survived in the African-American community to this day.

Though you clearly oppose Xmas, many African Americans, the people that this holiday was created to represent, do choose to celebrate both and many others only celebrate Xmas. If you want to talk about solidarity, you might start by not offending the people that the holiday you claim to care about was intended for.

The only valid point I see in what you've said here is that Kwanzaa does seem to have working class ethics behind it, such as Cooperative economics, Collective work and responsibility, and creativity. Beyond that, I think you're just kidding yourself, but hell, have fun.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: WTF?
[info]ex_faggotry950
2005-12-23 09:26 pm UTC (link)
What if we're against economics as well as politics?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: WTF? - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:28 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 09:33 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:38 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 10:00 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:39 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-23 10:43 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 09:43 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]punkymunky21, 2005-12-23 09:47 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - [info]whosplittheatom, 2005-12-23 10:15 pm UTC
Re: WTF? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:40 pm UTC
ROFL
[info]whosplittheatom
2005-12-23 10:00 pm UTC (link)
traddy skins celebrating Chanukah... well thank god for the internet and especially LJ, for providing me with a ceaseless sense of "wow, I thought I'd seen it all..."

coming next year: fat lesbian furry pot-smoking Odinists who want to celebrate the Saturnalia!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: ROFL
[info]bloochik
2005-12-25 12:30 am UTC (link)
stop the fursecution! Leave the furrysexuals alone! >:O

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]scamort
2005-12-23 10:37 pm UTC (link)
Everyone's political. you have political interests, I promise. no one is totally neutral about the world around them.

unless you're a robot, and I don't trust robots.

and, as echoed here, if you're apolitical, post this in some skinhead forum somewhere. oh, and welcome the SHARPs, they're pretty cool people who like to get pretty drunk.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ex_faggotry950
2005-12-23 10:45 pm UTC (link)
I don't agree with that Marxian rhetoric. My desired revolution isn't political/economic. It's social. Nothing I do is political. It's all anti-political.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-23 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scamort, 2005-12-23 11:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 01:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 02:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scamort, 2005-12-24 05:26 pm UTC

[info]daysofthegun
2005-12-23 10:43 pm UTC (link)
tradskins suck!@ redskins forever! OI OI OI

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]scamort
2005-12-23 11:51 pm UTC (link)
I'll trade some skins, sure. got any of them muskets we've been hearing about?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]toho
2005-12-23 11:41 pm UTC (link)
Let me add to this clusterfuck:



Who farted?

teehee!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]fantasmguitar
2005-12-24 01:26 am UTC (link)
teehee indeed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]xbornagainstx
2005-12-23 11:56 pm UTC (link)
what's a TRAD? and why?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ex_faggotry950
2005-12-24 12:08 am UTC (link)
traditional

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]syndicalist, 2005-12-24 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xbornagainstx, 2005-12-24 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]syndicalist, 2005-12-24 12:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 02:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 02:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alex_jon, 2005-12-24 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 12:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alex_jon, 2005-12-24 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]syndicalist, 2005-12-24 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ex_faggotry950, 2005-12-24 06:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 09:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-25 03:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xbornagainstx, 2005-12-25 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-27 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xbornagainstx, 2005-12-27 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 12:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]syndicalist, 2005-12-24 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 12:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]odubtaig, 2005-12-24 02:04 am UTC

[info]krustasfuck
2005-12-24 01:51 am UTC (link)
skinhead is the most stupid subculture ever. american pride and oi oi oi proud to make minimum wage my whole life and be the lowest cog in the government machine oi oi oi.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ex_faggotry950
2005-12-24 02:13 am UTC (link)
that's workerism

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]anarchivist, 2005-12-24 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-24 09:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anarchivist, 2005-12-24 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-24 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-25 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-25 11:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-24 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-24 09:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tradskinkwanzaa, 2005-12-24 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmemory, 2005-12-25 11:28 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-12-24 07:43 am UTC
Merry Christmas!
[info]anarchivist
2005-12-24 02:54 am UTC (link)
And A Happy New Year!

(Reply to this)


[info]locustinferno
2005-12-24 07:10 am UTC (link)
To be perfectly blunt: What the fuck?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tradskinkwanzaa
2005-12-24 06:19 pm UTC (link)
Why not?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]locustinferno, 2005-12-24 07:13 pm UTC

[info]coweatman
2005-12-24 03:26 pm UTC (link)
virgin megastore? what would garry bushel think?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tradskinkwanzaa
2005-12-24 06:25 pm UTC (link)
You're not from Boston, are you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]coweatman, 2005-12-24 06:58 pm UTC

[info]coweatman
2005-12-24 03:33 pm UTC (link)
for what it's worth, i've known three anarchist skinheads in my time.
one of them was a raging (but somewhat loveable) asshole who got deported who had a bust of stalin in his room and personally did a whole lot to damage the local anarchist community by taking part in behaviors that caused rifts that took years to heal. the other one was friends with him but was a really nice guy, and didn't seem like he was as politically involved. the other anarchist skinhead i know is probably one of the most solid comrades (for lack of a better word) that i've known, ever, is super involved and does a ton of good work.

(Reply to this)


[info]delchi
2005-12-24 10:10 pm UTC (link)
It's all about Agnostica!

"Agnostica is the only truly secular winter celebration. It is a celebration for the scientist in all of us, celebrating not some contrived story written thousands of years ago and translated seventeen times over until the Hebrew word for "rope" gets turned into "camel," and then inexplicably the whole deal is replaced by consumer-frenzy dictated to us by a fat child-labor mogul in a fur-lined red suit, but rather of ourselves, the perfect self-defining nature of the universe, and of being proud of the human intellect.
"
http://www.agnostica.com/

(Reply to this) (Thread)


(Anonymous)
2005-12-25 03:19 am UTC (link)
That's pretty geigh.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]bloochik
2005-12-25 12:39 am UTC (link)
hmm, is "getting really fucking smashed" really an integral part of the celebration of Kwanzaa?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


(Anonymous)
2005-12-25 03:27 am UTC (link)
Sure, why not.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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