om shanti om ([info]wander_lost) wrote in [info]altparent,
@ 2008-03-09 21:51:00
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A Darn Dilemma

I don't post here often, but I really need some advice. Here is a very annotated version of the dilemma:

My son is 8. He is in second grade. He goes to public school. He is a smart and wonderful kid. But since kindergarten - maybe even preschool, I have heard the whole ADD thing from his teachers. For a long, long time I simply thought "boys will be boys" and that the teachers weren't doing enough to teach to an individual, etc. (I should add, I taught for 6 years, so I do understand pretty welll how public soperate, and that while teachers try to meet the needs of each kid, with overcrowded classes and unrealistsic administrative expectations, it easy for kids to get lost in the shuffle).

But this year, it seems that some of the same problems at school are coming home and he seems lesa and less happy. His class has a token ecomony, so if he gets in trouble, he loses his "friday freetime" - he definitely has less freetime than has it. Other privelages get taken away from him. HIs teahcer tells me he is a constant distraction, needs constamt redirection, etc. Though his math and reading are above average, his writing suffers as he can't seem to get clear and complete thoughts onto paper. His handwriting is pretty bad, too.

At home, he just never listens the first (or second, sometimes third) time you tell him something, so he gets in trouble quite often, especailly from his dad. I feel like the kid is slowly breaking down from not meeting expectations....

so I read a bunch of book about ADD/ADHD and my child really does fit the basic mold. I read books about Indigo children, too. Anything but ADD! I also looked up a lot of alternatives - behavior modification, supplements like fish oil and magnesium, melatonin to help him sleep at night. I am trying to do everything I can to help him settle and concentrate and pay attention and listen and stop getting in trouble, because I really, really, do not want to medicate him.

I think I am going to have him assessed by a therapist soon though (a friend of mine who is a child psychologist recommended this as opposed to just visiting the doctor right off or letting the school do any form of assessment), because part of me wonders if not medicating him is a disservice as well???

I am at a total loss here. I think the whole ADD thing is so overdone and I cringe to think I might be a parent with a kid on ritalin (or whatever they give now), but I feel like my son is hurting and it isn't really his fault - I mean, he doesn't try to not follow directions or be distracted, it just happens....while part of me feels medicating is the easy way out, another part of me doesn't want to see him hurting if the answer is as easy as a pill a day.

so, I want to hear some stories - from those who have been in similar situations - medicators and non medicators. Please help me think this through, share your experiences!

TIA!



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From the point of view of an ADD adult with a specific example...
[info]ldy_shadow
2008-03-10 02:15 am UTC (link)
I was not medicated - my mother didn't feel I needed it. She had a very similar standpoint as yours. That, and I was WELL above average when it comes to abilities and IQ. She wrote it off as me just being too intelligent for the class around me.

Math was the area that it effected me. I'm 25 and I still don't know how to long divide because no one ever sat down with me to explain it to me in a way my brain would recognize. I'm labeled as a "learning disabled" student now that I'm in college.

It's been tossed out by more than one therapist and psychiatrist that I've visited that if I had been medicated, traditional teaching methods would have worked in the mathematical area, and I'd not have a problem with it today.

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Re: From the point of view of an ADD adult with a specific example...
[info]silverseastar
2008-03-10 03:49 am UTC (link)
I recommend reading the Myth of Ability by John Mighton. It may change your mind about learning, especially in the area of math.

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Re: From the point of view of an ADD adult with a specific example...
[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:35 pm UTC (link)
well, this is sort of me fear - I don't want to do it, but I don't want to not and wish I had.

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[info]princessenoire
2008-03-10 02:35 am UTC (link)
I'm in almost the exact same situation. My son is 7, and in the 2nd grade, and has been having increasing difficulty getting along with peers (to the point of getting into fights). He's recently been diagnosed with ADHD (severe), as exceptionally gifted, and with dysgraphia (a writing learning disability related to dyslexia).

I am, in general, opposed to ADHD meds as well, but our situation was spiraling out of control. It doesn't help that his bio dad is in and out of his life as he so desires, and my husband (whom he adores) is in the Navy and often not home. Because of the combination of everything, I decided that meds would be our best option to help him focus both in school and in therapy (to teach him coping mechanisms for everything else).

He started on Adderall, but it's not working. It's actually making him *more* irritable and aggressive (which is a listed side effect) and so I'm refusing to give it to him again. I'm willing to try another medicine, potentially, perhaps one of the newer non-stimulants. I don't know really what else to do. He's starting individual and group therapy again (CA requires the consent of all guardians and we had to sue for sole custody in order to get him seen) and we're working on other things as well, such as diet.

So, I have no idea if this is any help at all, but here's another of us... :)

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I appreciate you sharing, it helps to know we are not alone.

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[info]ladymairwen
2008-03-10 02:39 am UTC (link)
I am having similar problems with my 10 year old daughter. Difficulty focussing in school, easily distracted, etc. For years I have tried to write it off to rambunctiousness and "a different way of learning", stuff like that, since her 2 sisters are polar opposites to her.

I am FINALLY (tomorrow, actually) having a consult with her pediatrician about it. Drugs are far from my first choice, but there have been so many changes in the pharmaceutical possibilities in the last few years...there are choices now (can't think of the name, sorry) that instead of zombiefying the kid and completely messing up the REST of their body chemicals, help the kids brain/body to make the chemical that is missing. Encourages production of whatever that chemical is, if you will. There are also diet changes that can help and other things - talk to your pediatrician as well as a therapist.

My pediatrician gave me a parental survey as well as a teacher survey to fill out and bring back as a place to start.

Good luck with it, I hope you can find what works for you and your son.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I think that's that strattera or something. I am going to look into it, thanks!

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[info]ladymairwen
2008-03-10 03:49 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, something like that. Welcome!

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[info]lauracathrine
2008-03-10 02:51 am UTC (link)
I have to express only one opinion here:
Whatever you do, whether or not you get to the point of medicating him or not, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not ever allow anyone to convince you that your child should be on Ritalin.

Therapy is great... I've been in therapy for 5 years as have all of my step-children. Cant recommend that enough.

SOME medications are wonderful and are, at times, necessary. I can not stress enough though how bad Ritalin is for children. There are a dozen other options available without having to (what I feel is) poison your kid's brain.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:38 pm UTC (link)
no, no, I agree completely. And we are defnintely looking to therapy as a start, before anything else - I'm posting here because i strongly feel I have to make the decision: not the doctor or therapist, certainly not the teachers, but I just am at a loss for what the right decision is (hence, this post!).

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[info]lauracathrine
2008-03-10 04:33 pm UTC (link)
During the past 6 years, our family has been through a lot in regards to therapy, etc. Some of the issues I've faced with my step-kids include: self mutilation, compulsive lying, ADD, ODD, skewed reality disorder, sexual assault, stealing, poisoning, among other things.

Ive had them in therapy since 2003 and 2 were sent to both inpatient psychiatric care as well as to a residential treatment center.

If you have any questions or want to chat privately, please feel free to email me at laura cathrine at insight bb dot com -or- contact me through Yahoo Messenger at lauracathrine3point0

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[info]saigeygirl
2008-03-10 02:55 am UTC (link)
I don't have any first hand experience to share as my child is still a toddler. I hope you don't mind my observations anyway!

I read a book "Real Boys" when I was pregnant with my son. It gives a lot of great insight into parenting boys in an educational environment that very much goes against typical active "boy" behavior. Sitting in a quiet classroom, inside, being expected to sit still all day is NOT the natural habitat for a young active, child and (this book argues) that evolutionarily speaking, it's more tuned to girls who prefer more of the quiet, cooperative learning atmosphere. So, for active boys in this setting, it's no surprise that ADD diagnosis have been rampant. I don't mean to disregard the diagnosis of a very real disorder, but I think that it's being overused as a way to avoid dealing with active, intelligent kids that don't neatly fit into the classroom mold.

It makes little sense to me that the punishment for disruptive behavior is losing freetime- the only time he'd get to burn off some of that energy. I'd start by petitioning the school to see if you can change that policy. It sounds like he needs MORE running around time, not less.

However, it seems that you have a few concerns of your own. It wouldn't hurt to have him evaluated by a professional that you trust, or perhaps by a few professionals to get a better idea of what sits right with you.

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[info]aelfie
2008-03-10 03:05 am UTC (link)
It makes little sense to me that the punishment for disruptive behavior is losing free time- the only time he'd get to burn off some of that energy. I'd start by petitioning the school to see if you can change that policy. It sounds like he needs MORE running around time, not less.

I really, really agree with this. My husband (and now my son) was a VERY active little boy...and incredibly smart. He had a very wise kindergarden teacher...when he started to get too rambuncous, too wiggly, or too "whatever" she'd have him run a couple of laps around the playground and he was able to come back to class and participate.

I'd ask the teacher if she could give him some extra physical exercise before you start medicating...it couldn't hurt...

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:40 pm UTC (link)
I don't mean to disregard the diagnosis of a very real disorder, but I think that it's being overused as a way to avoid dealing with active, intelligent kids that don't neatly fit into the classroom mold.

Exaclty. While I don't feel medicating my child to make the teacher's life easier is the answer, I don't want his self esteem to be compromised, which is where I fel we are headed. Which still doesn't mean he needs medication, but only that something has ot change.

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[info]aelfie
2008-03-10 03:07 am UTC (link)
Okay, now I need to ask a question...what are Indigo children?

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[info]trampledamage
2008-03-10 03:57 am UTC (link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:41 pm UTC (link)
I don't know that I buy the whole Indigo idea, but it is an interesting concept and another way to look at this entire ADD epidemic. I don't have the time right now to type out the whole idea, but I bet the link someone posted below would be helpful.

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[info]aelfie
2008-03-11 01:20 am UTC (link)
Someone did...Thanks!

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[info]amelora
2008-03-10 03:23 am UTC (link)
I was diagnosed with ADD when I was younger too, but it was the early 90's and EVERYONE had ADD. My mom didn't do anything about it because she didn't want her kids to have problems. I am also dyslexia, which she also did nothing about.
When I was 21 I found out that I do not have ADD after all. I am bi-polar, and probably had it from when I was really young.
My advice to you is to get your child checked out by a professional and learn all the different treatments that are out there. IF he does have ADD then you can treat it the way you feel most comfortable with; if he doesn't then you will know that too and be able to sit down and have a conversation with the teachers about how to deal with the situation.

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[info]sheyeblaze
2008-03-10 04:07 am UTC (link)
IAWTC, ADHD & bi-polar disorder are often mis-diagnosed for each other.

P.S. to my other comment...

I wrote this about ADHD a long while ago...

http://sheyeblaze.livejournal.com/4466.html

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[info]hereticsineater
2008-03-10 11:53 pm UTC (link)
I absolutely adore your icon. Sorry, I just had to say it. Its so perfect, I can't even begin to tell you. Brilliant. Seriously.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:42 pm UTC (link)
yup, this is pretty much where we are starting.

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[info]silverseastar
2008-03-10 03:43 am UTC (link)
This is a difficult situation to be sure.

Some things to think about:

- Some kids learn by doing. Sitting in a classroom situation is akin to torture for them.

- Kids who are very smart often seem to have ADD because they bore so easily.

- Children often live up to what is expected of them. If he is constantly being told he is wild and out of control- guess what he becomes. Helping him to understand who he is, that it is perfectly fine, and how to work with it will help him see who he is as a gift and also how to control it.

- Way back when, before institutionalized schools, kids would be busy and active. It may not really be natural to sit put and listen.

- You could try taking away some of his stressors and see what happens.

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[info]silverseastar
2008-03-10 03:56 am UTC (link)
I also want to add I am a fan of "good" psycho-ed assessment as they can often catch gifted kids with deficits, something that is VERY common.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:43 pm UTC (link)
yes, even his teacher hinted at the gifted idea, and it hasn't bypassed me. I think I would need an "official" gifted assessment to get his teacher to do anything different than the way she has taught for 30 years though.

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[info]silverseastar
2008-03-10 05:24 pm UTC (link)
We took the plunge with our oldest daughter as her teacher viewed her as unmotivated but she would spend hours every night doing homework. The initial assessments although we haven't got the official stuff yet, is that she has the reading and vocabulary of a 20 year old and the math capability far above average.

We discovered her spelling issues were making easy assignments difficult for her, and had nothing to do with her cognitive ability but in grade 7 the writing down of stuff is the proof of understanding, even if it isn't.

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[info]sheyeblaze
2008-03-10 03:50 am UTC (link)
My eldest is ADHD and I have done both non-medicated and medicated. We did not medicate her nor did we get her "officially" diagnosed until she was 9 years old. Although, we knew when she was 4.

Non-medicated was great and dandy and fine as long as she wasn't having any "real" personal problems.

IME and the opinion of the ADHD specialist that we visited, your number one enemy with ADHD is most often decreased self-esteem.

This is where the decision to medicate or not medicate really came into play. She had hit a point where her ADHD was starting to seriously effect her self-esteem. She had been unmedicated for years and we had worked with her teachers to use a less punishment oriented system for letting her know when she was off-task.

It really sounds like the method that your teacher is using is not ADHD-friendly.

Medicating my daughter was the best thing that could've done at the time to help to stem the damage to her self-esteem.

Medications of various kinds (including ritalin) had different effects and dosages depending on the child. Ritalin gets a bad rap because it has been misused by parents/teachers/peds who didn't want to actually deal with their child. The way that I look at it is -- if my daughter were diabetic and reached a point where diet alone was no longer working to control it, I'd use medications. It the same basic idea -- we hit a point where behaviror mod, etc alone was no longer working to control the issues related to ADHD.

We've recently moved her from Concerta XR tablets to the Daytrana patch. It's 1/2 of the actual medication for the same "effective" dose.

Medication or not is a tough decision and best done with a lot thought and a lot of consideration for the individual child involved.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:44 pm UTC (link)
the self esteem is definitely my concern. I want to start with therapy I think,but I am not closing the door to the need for meds

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[info]misanthrope_mom
2008-03-10 04:46 am UTC (link)
My 9-year-old son has been on a fistful of meds since first grade, he's now in third. We were strongly urged to seek treatment by his kindergarten teacher, despite all of his daycare providers saying that "he's just active." He was never very good socially, and was actively being bullied in kindergarten.

He also is far above the curve academically, but rarely has any of the class perks, and frequently brings home classwork in addition to homework, due to still having a hard time focusing.

He sounds very similar to your son.

Since he has been on medication, the VAST increase in school success has done wonders for his self-image, and he actually has FRIENDS! Those were really my priorities - a happy kid with friends. He's learning how to learn; he gets a chance to shine instead of always being the disruptive troublemaker; and kids call out to him and wave on our way to and from school.

Honestly, there are definitely downsides, and things I worry about, but my baby is doing well, and that's really all I care about. When I first started posting here, someone gave me some really good advice: I take allergy medications and wear glasses to help me function in life, my son deserves the assistance, too.

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[info]misanthrope_mom
2008-03-10 04:48 am UTC (link)
OH, lemme correct myself: When I first started posting in add_adhdparents, I got that advice. I highly encourage you to check it out, it's a great community, and the folks there can point you towards lots of good info.

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:44 pm UTC (link)
thank you! I have heard a lot of parets say this same thing, which I why I am interested in looking into meds, even if we don't use them.

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[info]amelora
2008-03-10 05:00 am UTC (link)
I just thought of this... it could be a food alergy. When my sister was young they used have this wierd red dye that is now off the market. When ever she had anything red (jelly beans were the worst) she would become so out of control no one knew what to do with her. Her son now has a simmilar reaction to sugar and it ends up my cousin has a reaction to gluton.
Although your son doesn't sound like he has gotten to that point it might be something else to consider.

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[info]kt_peasant
2008-03-10 08:42 am UTC (link)
Yeah - my son goes hyper on, well, pretty much most sweets. He's so doing much much better since we rationed the sweets to one little one a day max, and made sure he got a whole bunch of running around time to burn off energy. His teacher's commented on how much happier he is in class, his reading and concentrating generally have come on a lot.

Lots of options, you don't have to go straight for meds. There are lots of coping strategies you can work on. What you do have to do is get yourself some facts, and get access to expert advice.

Good luck

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[info]badkitty
2008-03-10 12:51 pm UTC (link)
i remember that! i had a few friends that couldn't even drink red KoolAid :O

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:45 pm UTC (link)
I know, I thought if this too. We have done some diet changes, but nothing really major.

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[info]badbadivy
2008-03-10 05:11 pm UTC (link)
My son is allergic to Red Dye #40 which is in damn near everything that is red, orange, purple, and even some browns and blacks. This affects all kinds of foods from juice to cereal to fruit snacks and even medicine.

When he's had Red Dye #40 he flips out, has tantrums, etc.

OP, I would definitely try taking Red Dye #40 out of your kid's diet entirely just to see what happens.

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[info]badkitty
2008-03-10 12:50 pm UTC (link)
i was a kid that the teachers labeled "ADD".
i am also dyslexic.
i had the same track record, the gifted mind that was oft distracted by the mundane classroom life.
my strengths were english/lit, math and history. science, i was "meh" on until labs.
my parents gathered other parents in the school with the same issues and took it to the school board- citing that we "learned differently" and "were easily bored" by the teachers' educational practices. my school system ended up getting an A.G. program (which all of the kids whose parents went with mine & myself tested into)
that helped some. the AG classes displayed learning styles of all sorts. visual / audio / hands-on, etc.
then i moved to a magnet school program- where every single teacher used all types of learning. we did everything three ways- we had the lecture, then a visual learning and then a hands-on (often "mini museums" we would erect or entire Greek Banquets dressed in ancient Greek attire.)
i'm a very visual person. you can tell me one thing- and it will go in one ear and out the other. but if i get shown (or told like ten times)- i can do it seamlessly.
i still have issues being easily distracted. they still tell me i have "ADD"- i've never been medicated for it. i don't know how it would have changed things. but, my mother doesn't like medicating children. it feels wrong to her unless if their issues are indeed very severe (like a cousin i have, who is ADHD and has been label "sociopath" from therapy- he does need to be medicated because he becomes /violent/ )

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:46 pm UTC (link)
I wish we had a school like this. I can't aford montessori or private school,sadly. I could try to find other paretns in similar situations though, maybe do somehting like your paretns did.

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[info]miss_magdellin
2008-03-10 02:15 pm UTC (link)
My ex is ADHD and my daughter seems to share a lot of the same characteristics. I'm happy enough to medicate if she absolutely needs it, but of course I'm not using psychiatric drugs as a first response to the issue.

My aunt is a psychologist and she recommended completely removing all preservatives and artificial colours from my daughter's diet. It turned her from a hell beast who threw near-constant tantrums and had almost no focus into a lovely little girl. And the beauty of removing additives is that their little bodies are better off without all that crap in their diets anyway so she's probably better off health-wise. :)

I don't presume to know your diet, but if he eats sandwiches or whatever for lunch a great starting point would be to ensure the bread doesn't contain preservative 282. It's nasty and can cause otherwise normal children to have problems in school, so even cutting out that one thing could help a lot. Good luck!

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[info]wander_lost
2008-03-10 03:35 pm UTC (link)
how is the preservative labeled on the bread? Simply as 282? We eat whole grain bread, is it in that too?? We tried removing the additives, thoughI admit not too stringently. Maybe that is a good place to start.

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[info]trampledamage
2008-03-10 06:51 pm UTC (link)
I looked it up on wikipedia (cause I wanted to check my bread too!) - it's Calcium Propionate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preservative_282

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[info]miss_magdellin
2008-03-10 10:38 pm UTC (link)
Keep in mind that I'm Australian and things may be labelled slightly differently, but it should say 'preservative 282' or 'preservative (282)'. It's less common in whole grain breads here, but it's still in some brands.

Yeah, removing additives is a really annoying process unless you've got a good motivation. It takes us forever to shop because we have to read the full ingredient list on everything she eats.

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[info]androktone
2008-03-10 04:12 pm UTC (link)
We think my 6 year old may have ADHD - his dad is diagnosed with it but for our own reasons we are not pushing to have Harry diagnosed until/unless he is not coping at school. At the moment he is a bit vague about school and not socialising that well, but he's still struggling along and we want to give him a chance to do it on his own. I think I'd rather teach him at home than medicate him if he does end up not coping.

Like your son, he is a lovely little boy, very bright in some areas but incredibly scatty and distractable in others.

I have found that physical activity really helps him - play fighting or going out for a run. I have also read articles where balancing exercises help with dyslexia as well, so I reckon it can't hurt. It certainly calms him down when he is stressing and helps him to concentrate, so maybe you could try something similar?

Another thing Harry suffers from is not sleeping enough. i have to really concentrate and keep checking on him to make sure he stays in bed once put there and we have a whole routine and gentle music etc to help him - because ADHD kids often can't sleep easily but they need to!

Good luck - even if you get a diagnosis, you don't need to agree to medicating him, there is probably a lot that can be done by changing his environment around so that he can cope easier, informing his teachers so that they can be more understanding, that sort of thing, When the pressure is off, you will probably see a much happier little boy, and when he is less stressed about evewrything he will porbably find it easier to concentrate :)

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