Agnostic Community

Evangelicals are undermining our Armed Forces

2008-07-09T16:36:59Z

I'd like to preface this story with one of my own:
My sister is in the Air Force, and I went with my mom to her boot-camp graduation. The head guy who spoke to us families repeatedly said things like..."If your child didn't read the Bible before coming here, I can assure you they do now." and made several comments about how boot camp pushed people into faith, and how that was a good thing.
Anyway, later the Air Force Chaplin, Rev. MeLinda Morton, was fired when she looked into and wrote about religious intolerance against non-evangelical Christians throughout the Air Force.
You can read this article here from the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201740.html
Air Force Removes Chaplain From Post
Officer Decried Evangelicals' Influence

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 13, 2005; Page A04

DENVER, May 12 -- An Air Force chaplain who complained that evangelical Christians were trying to "subvert the system" by winning converts among cadets at the Air Force Academy was removed from administrative duties last week, just as the Pentagon began an in-depth study of alleged religious intolerance among cadets and commanders at the school.

"They fired me," said Capt. MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran minister who was removed as executive officer of the chaplain unit on May 4. "They said I should be angry about these outside groups who reported on the strident evangelicalism at the academy. The problem is, I agreed with those reports."

Capt. MeLinda Morton, an Air Force Academy chaplain, said she agrees with reports criticizing the religious atmosphere at the school.
Capt. MeLinda Morton, an Air Force Academy chaplain, said she agrees with reports criticizing the religious atmosphere at the school. (By Ed Andrieski -- Associated Press)

"The choice of a new executive officer was a standard transition," said Lt. Col. Laurent Fox, an academy spokesman. "The situation is, both the commanding officer [of the chaplain unit] and the executive officer are scheduled to leave this post in a couple of months. It was decided to replace the executive officer now for reasons of continuity."

Amid a rising chorus of complaints about preferential treatment for evangelical Christians -- and command pressure on non-evangelicals -- among the 4,000 cadets, a Pentagon task force is visiting the Colorado Springs campus this week to study the religious atmosphere and propose possible remedial steps.

Morton, whose removal as executive officer was first reported in USA Today, said she has not been asked to brief the task force.

Surveys of present and former cadets have shown that some students said they felt a heavy and sometimes offensive emphasis on evangelical Christianity, with praise for cadets who pronounce their "born-again" status and insults aimed at Jews, Roman Catholics and non-evangelical cadets.

One staff chaplain reportedly told newly arrived freshmen last summer that anyone not born again "will burn in the fires of hell."

Such slurs have been heard for decades on the campus, according to Mikey Weinstein of Albuquerque, a 1977 academy graduate who said he has repeatedly complained to the Air Force brass about the "religious pressure" on cadets. "This is not Christian versus Jew," Weinstein said. "This is the evangelical Christians against everybody else."

The Air Force's new attention to the issue stems from an earlier scandal at the school in which female cadets said commanding officers ignored or played down numerous cases of sexual assault by male students.

As part of its response to the sexual assault charges, the academy asked a team from Yale Divinity School to visit the campus during the summer training for incoming freshmen.

"We were asked to study the quality of cadet-centered pastoral care," said Yale Prof. Kristen Leslie. "What we found was this very strong evangelical Christian voice just dominating. We thought that just didn't make sense in light of their mission, which was to protect and train cadets, not to win religious converts."

Morton, who was executive officer of the squadron of 16 chaplains at the academy, said she shared the concerns expressed by the study group from Yale.

"The evangelicals want to subvert the system," Morton said. "They have a very clear social and political agenda. The evangelical tone is pervasive at the academy, and it's aimed at converting these young people who are under intense pressure anyway."

When a two-page summary of the "Yale Report" became public this spring, Morton said, the academy's chief chaplain, Col. Michael Whittington, responded angrily. But Morton said she agreed with the criticism in the report.

Capt. MeLinda Morton, an Air Force Academy chaplain, said she agrees with reports criticizing the religious atmosphere at the school.

Morton said she has also criticized the academy's RSVP program, or Respecting the Spiritual Values of All People, a training unit designed to teach academy personnel to tolerate all religious views. "I just think RSVP is a weak program," she said.

Whittington was not available for a comment Thursday; academy officials said he was busy all day with the Pentagon task force.

After several "reasonably tense" days among the academy chaplains, Morton said, she received an e-mail on May 4 from Whittington. It said a new executive officer would be named, effective immediately.

Fox, the academy spokesman, said this change was made because Whittington is retiring from the Air Force in June and Morton is due for a transfer in July to Okinawa. But Morton said the normal procedure would be to keep her in the number two post until she departs, so that she could help the unit's new commanding officer settle in.

Morton said the cadet wing at the Air Force Academy is about 90 percent Christian. She said that group is roughly one-third Catholic, one-third mainstream Protestant and one-third evangelical. But the evangelicals have a much bigger voice among the chaplains, she said.

"The predominance of evangelical Christians reflects the chaplain corps of the Air Force overall," Morton said. "The major mainstream Protestant divinity schools are no longer sending many graduates into the armed forces. And so the concentration of evangelicals among chaplains is strong through the whole service."

Morton, 48, said that, having criticized the religious atmosphere at the academy, "I may be toast" in terms of an Air Force career. She said her next duty station is said to be a pleasant spot. "But serving in Okinawa as the most hated chaplain in the Air Force might not be so great."

Now, this story breaks from the Army, where a brave new-atheist is speaking out against the intolerance he has faced since renouncing his Christian Faith.

KANSAS CITY, Kansas (CNN) -- Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.
Jeremy Hall

Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, who was raised Baptist but is now an atheist, says the military violated his religious freedom.
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Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.

Hall said he met some atheists who suggested he read the Bible again. After doing so, he said he had so many unanswered questions that he decided to become an atheist.

His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety. Video Watch why Hall says his lack of faith almost got him killed »

In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.

"I think it's utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional," Hall said.

Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.

Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"

Hall isn't seeking compensation in his lawsuit -- just the guarantee of religious freedom in the military. Eventually, Hall was sent home early from Iraq and later returned to Fort Riley in Junction City, Kansas, to complete his tour of duty.

He also said he missed out on promotions because he is an atheist.

"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.

Michael Weinstein, a retired senior Air Force officer and founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is suing along with Hall. Weinstein said he's been contacted by more than 8,000 members of the military, almost all of them complaining of pressure to embrace evangelical Christianity.

"Our Pentagon, our Pentacostalgon, is refusing to realize that when you put the uniform on, there's only one religious faith: patriotism," Weinstein said.

Religious discrimination is a violation of the First Amendment and is also against military policy. The Pentagon refused to discuss specifics of Hall's case -- citing the litigation. But Deputy Undersecretary Bill Carr said complaints of evangelizing are "relatively rare." He also said the Pentagon is not pushing one faith among troops.

"If an atheist chose to follow their convictions, absolutely that's acceptable," said Carr. "And that's a point of religious accommodation in department policy, one may hold whatever faith, or may hold no faith."
Don't Miss

* Blog: Is the military a Christian organization?
* AC360.com

Weinstein said he doesn't buy it and points to a promotional video by a group called Christian Embassy. The video, which shows U.S. generals in uniform, was shot inside the Pentagon. The generals were subsequently reprimanded.

Another group, the Officers' Christian Fellowship, has representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide. Its vision, which is spelled out on the organization's Web site, reads, "A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform empowered by the Holy Spirit."

Weinstein has a different interpretation.

"Their purpose is to have Christian officers exercise Biblical leadership to raise up a godly army," he says.

But Carr said the military's position is clear.
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"Proselytizing or advancing a religious conviction is not what the nation would have us do and it's not what the military does," Carr said.

The U.S. Justice Department is expected to respond to Hall's lawsuit this week. In the meantime, he continues to work in the military police unit at Fort Riley and plans to leave as soon as his tour of duty expires next year.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/atheist.soldier/index.html

More information can be found here at Jews on First (Amendment)
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/weinstein.html

Typo of the Day?

2008-06-26T03:08:55Z

My MySpace friend Alaina writes that she's interviewing people of various religious persuasions.

In addition to non-Christian religions, she specifies that she wishes to interview an atheist and "an antagonist." ;-P

Informative Website

2008-06-08T05:32:56Z

I came across disbeliefnet.com, which points out the absurdities of many religions. Have fun reading!

Religulous

2008-06-08T05:01:38Z

Who wants to go watch this movie, when it comes out? Religulous points out how ridiculous many religious dogmas are.

Upcoming Event in Toronto: Faith Through an Atheist's Eyes, June 27th

2008-05-30T00:55:03Z

Friday, June 27, 2008, 6:00pm - 9:00pm
University of Toronto: Multi-Faith Center, Main Activity Hall, 2nd Floor
6 - 7: Reception & Meet and Greet
7 - 9: Lecture + question period

Hemant Mehta comes to Toronto to talk about faith and his experience with "selling his soul". In January 2006 Hemant Mehta, once Jain now atheist, created an auction on eBay offering up his atheist mind&body to go to the worship service of whatever the winning bidder chose. Every $10 would equal one hour in that particular place of worship. The bidding ended on February 3, 2006 with the final bid sitting at $504 from Jim Henderson, a minister from Seattle, Washington. The money was later donated by Hemant to the Secular Student Alliance, a non-profit organization. The agreement was for Hemant to visit a variety of churches and to write about his experiences at them at the web-site off-the-map.org, and later developed into his book "I Sold My Soul On eBay". He continues to open up dialogue at his personal blog friendlyatheist.com

Spread the word about this upcoming event. If you have an organization near the Toronto area, be sure to tell your members about it.

Facebook events page link

In recovery from Christianity

2008-05-24T17:37:47Z

I am doing much better now, but I related to a lot of what I read at this post at ex-christian.net. I went from Christian, to agnostic, and now, pretty much atheist. I still have trouble saying I am an atheist because there is so much stigma in our society.
http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2006/07/not-ready-to-be-nice.html

Quote About God

2008-05-22T05:16:41Z

I came across this quote about God, and thought many of you would enjoy it.

It is an insult to God to believe in God. For on the one hand it is to suppose that he has perpetrated acts of incalculable cruelty. On the other hand, it is to suppose that he has perversely given his human creatures an instrument - their intellect - which must inevitably lead them, if they are dispassionate and honest, to deny his existence. It is tempting to conclude that if he exists, it is the atheists and agnostics that he loves best, among those with any pretensions to education. For they are the ones who have taken him most seriously.

Galen Strawson

Gosh Darn It!

2008-05-22T05:12:52Z

I think I'll not believe in Gosh instead of not believing in God.
If you don't believe in God, you get damned to Hell, but if you don't believe in Gosh, you'll only be darned to Heck.

agnosticism @ 2008-05-21T17:04:00

2008-05-21T22:04:42Z

If anyone is interested celticzen and I have started a community for the sole purpose of religious debate. All are welcome, but please read the userinfo before joining. This community is open to people of all faiths or no faith who have a desire to debate religion, but it is not for the easily offended or those that have no actual desire to debate.

Come check us out 0hyourgod.

agnosticism @ 2008-05-01T00:37:00

2008-05-01T05:52:31Z

Howdy, new member!

As an Anthropology student, I'm into the real-world effects of religious belief and practice. Clearly, many rituals have tangible, measurable and adaptive effects for their practitioners, even today. However, many rituals are disadvantageous for adherents but are beneficial to the religion itself (as per Dawkins' ideas about toxic memes).

What rituals, if any, should be used or developed to benefit people?

Admitting my biases, I'm agnostic with Reform Jewish with eclectic leanings. I myself feel better after praying, despite my personal skepticism. I know I was raised that way and that I'm "brainwashed" in the words of more militant brights, but there are other, concrete factors there...

agnosticism @ 2008-04-30T09:15:00

2008-04-30T16:14:58Z

Is ignosticism a logical fallacy?

Loki is a trickster god in Norse mythology, who, legend has it, once made a bet with some dwarves[1]. It was agreed that the price, should Loki lose the wager, would be his head. Loki lost the bet, and in due time the dwarves came to collect the head which had become rightfully theirs. Loki had no problem with giving up his head, but he insisted they had absolutely no right to take any part of his neck. Everyone concerned discussed the matter; and, one could suppose, they are discussing the matter still. Certain parts were obviously head, and certain parts were obviously neck, but neither side could agree exactly where the one ended and the other began. As a result, Loki keeps his head indefinitely.

Creation with Mr. Deity.

2008-04-29T20:48:06Z

You can thank mesomelas for this one. ^.^

Creationist Propaganda

2008-04-22T21:51:03Z

Part 1:

Look, a lie!
The truth about Dr. Hovind's publicity offer

Another complete fabrication put forward in this video.
Peppered Moth studies

Part 2:

Despite what they say, believers in a flat earth base their beliefs on the bible.
The bible says the earth is flat

They like to quote the bible to show "prophesied science" in it, but as you can read here, they are all vague, ambiguous descriptions that could refer to anything, and are certainly being taken out of context. Either way, its not surprising that people observed things even 2000 years ago, but that doesn't mean they understood it past a basic understanding, as made clear by the fact that they use God to describe how it all works.

[Atomic Fussion]
2 Peter 3:10 - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Ocean Currents]
Psalms 8:8 - The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

Isaiah 43:16 - Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters;

(and to further prove this is out of context, look at the subsequent verse) Isaiah 43:17 - Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.

[Hydrologic Cycle]
Job 36:27 - For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:

Job 36:28 - Which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly.
Amos 9:6 - It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

[Jet Stream]
Ecclesiastes 1:6 - The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

[Dinosaurs]
Job 40 (All) - Seems to me to be describing an Elephant
Psalms 74:14 - Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

[Stars in the sky]
Jeremiah 33:22 - As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

The rest of the series can be found on youtube. Spend some time and learn why the creationists are wrong so that you can better debate the issue when it comes up. Learn what creationist don't bother to learn.
Discussions on Creationism vs. Evolution

Also this

2008-04-17T20:09:40Z

Atheism in America

2008-04-17T19:54:32Z

This is what happens when you tell religious people that you're an Atheist:

Reason 1,000,000 why I don't believe in God.

2008-04-17T14:06:25Z

There has never been a more "goodly, Christian" woman than my Nana. My Nana is a very religious woman, attends church weekly, and even plays piano for the church services. In addition to her service to God, my Nana is the finest grandmother I am aware of. Currently, she is in San Antonio with me (she lives 3 hours away in Corpus Christi), taxiing my ass around while my car is being repaired.

Contrarily, there are few in this world more staunch an atheist than myself.

This morning my Nana's car was broken into, robbed, and ruined.

Where is God? He is certainly not here. I am truly upset and helpless... I can do nothing for my Nana, and her God has deserted her. This is a tragedy.

P.S. Please don't say, "at least no one was injured," or anything to that effect.

Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot, or he can but does not want to.
Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus (341-270 BCE)

God Hates Sports Fans

2008-04-16T07:02:02Z

Found this online. What a laugh!

According to this, I am going to hell 6 different ways. (Sports fan, blasphemer, atheist (really agnostic), evolutionist, fornicator, masturbator. If one counts bisexual as homosexual, that would add another road to hell.)

So how many ways are you damned?

For the life of me, I can't figure out why sports fans will go to hell. If only some Bible-thumper warned me before entering the Oakland Coliseum to watch an A's game.

Does anybody else find the mention of Hypocrites quite ironic?

And why don't I see shrimp on the list?

And why are lesbians double-damned? They get it once as homosexuals, and again as female homosexuals. Women often get treated as second-class citizens. Even in Hell!

Philip Pullman and CS Lewis

2008-04-16T00:55:20Z

I really shouldn't be surprised by this, and I figured you lovely folks would understand.

I was out with a friend last night, who is a christian. I've explained to her my problems with organized religion and christianity as a whole. While she doesn't agree, she usually leaves it alone.

Last night, she started in on Philip Pullman again, about how the books/movies should be boycotted because he's a "militant athiest with an agenda." But CS Lewis is okay because christians do nothing but good.

*screams*

I'm smarter than you; I have a science degree

2008-04-15T22:07:32Z

hey all

2008-04-15T12:44:52Z

Hey all.
I am Sayf, and I am currently the admin of a forum called Semiotic. Whilst I am not Agnostic [am a Muslim] I am trying to get some religious diversity to Semiotic. ^_^
So please do check us out.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Semiotic

~Sayf.

Sweet mother of all that is good and pure....

2008-04-12T20:05:12Z

This scared me to my very core:

Free evolution and Science dvds!

2008-04-09T18:50:55Z

The Howard Hughes Medical Institute offers free dvds which contain lectures on various topics, from AIDS, to evolution. Two of them are of interest to you guys:

Evolution: Fossils, Genes, and Mousetraps
Evolution: Constant Change and Common Threads

The first is a lecture by Kenneth Miller, and it is a basic introduction to evolution lecture. He also criticizes Michael Behe's irreducibly complex arguments, and even shows a few clips from the Colbert Report. He also argues for the compatability of religion and science. The second dvd has four lectures (each an hour long) going over the basics of evolution, and explaining the mechanisms of it. It also includes a 70 minute discussion on whether evolution and science is compatable with religion. The production quality is fantastic, and the sound and picture quality are perfect.

And they're completely free (no shipping charge as well). I suggest ordering x3 of these so that you can hand some out to relatives, random fundies, etc. They also have other amazing lectures on RNA, AIDS, and tons more issues.

Here's the link to the Free Howard Hughes Catalogue of dvds and videos.

And help spread the link around!

Update on my experience as an atheist musician

2008-04-08T19:37:21Z

I had been neglecting to respond to a few of the comments on my blogs that have "outed" me as an atheist; however, I finally received the criticism I was anticipating - the issue of respect and tolerance towards religion. I gave a fairly lengthy response, much of which was just a mishmash of responses I had given in the past to similar accusations of disrespect and intolerance. Check out the blog on my MySpace titled, "My friend count dwindles due to my atheism."

It may appear a bit disjointed, and I even address some things that were not brought up by that person in particular. Rather, it's just a general response to any and all questions, comments, or criticism that I've received. Check it out and feel free to comment. It certainly could've been pieced together a bit better, but try to overlook that if at all possible. Remember, it's a general response to everyone and it will likely become a blog of it's own.

Here's the link again: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=165775911&blogID=372578655

In case you missed there initial posts regarding my "coming out as an atheist", here are the links:

Antitheism community

Atheism community

Agnosticism community

Agnostic Humor

2008-04-07T05:19:57Z

"I'd believe in something... but, it's against my beliefs." - joke about Agnosticism I came across.

The Limit of Pure Reason

2008-04-05T19:04:47Z

Reason can tell you that exactly one of these statements is true, but Reason can't tell you which statement is true.
* There is at least one deity.
* Or there is no deity.

You can use Occam's Razor and decide no deity exists, or you can choose to believe in one anyway, but you can't really know for certain either way.

My conclusion is that Reason can lead you to a question that Reason can't answer.