Sai Emrys ([info]saizai) wrote in [info]academic_empath,
@ 2005-10-08 12:00:00
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Chinese room: Reducible complexity & empathy limitation
[Reposted from my LJ.

This is a midterm paper for my Philosophy of Mind class (taught by John Searle). I think the issue of consciousness is pretty much directly tied to empathy; if anything, it is the only thing - that is, the way in which we view the world, and perhaps the potential for being aware of others' conscious states or even the state of the multiple-people meta-organism itself - that differentiates us from perfectly normal people experiencing sympathy.

I also think that the last point I make - that our understanding of others, and ability to perceive them as conscious (or, say, intelligent) is directly tied to how much we empathize with them. And that a good multi-level-description materialist worldview is perfectly compatible with empathy, with even a perfectly mundane underlying process to "explain" it. Namely, the combination of perception of behavior, belief/knowledge of structure, and personal experience. The closer our experience has come to someone else's, the easier it is to empathize. E.g., ain't many people who've been a tree, so that's hard.

If any of the references are confusing, ask. If you don't understand the Chinese Room argument from my very brief synopsis, Google-Scholar the reference at the bottom; it's an interesting paper.]


[Note for non-neuropsych people - "prosopagnosia" is a deficit caused by lesions (particularly on both sides) to a region of the brain called the "Fusiform Face Area"; people with it have a specific impairment to their ability to recognize faces (both familiar and unfamiliar), though their general visual skills, object recognition, voice recognition, etc., remains more-or-less intact.]

Sai Emrys / Ilya Starikov Phil 132 – Philosophy of Mind GSI: Aaron Lambert
Paper 1, Topic 3b/f (Chinese room per Systems / Impossibility replies)

John Searle proposed his “Chinese Room Argument” about 25 years ago (Searle 1980), as an attempt to argue against the “Strong AI” belief that artificial intelligences – or in general, systems other than humans – could be (at least in theory) conscious, sentient, or “intelligent”. It invokes a story of a room which to all outside tests is able to pass the Turing test, by carrying on perfectly intelligent conversation, in Chinese writing. On the inside is a man with no knowledge of Chinese, interpreting the symbols he is given by looking them up in a tome reference tables and – following its instructions – constructs a return message of equally-meaningless (to him) symbols.

This scenario invokes some obviously impossible features, the most obvious of which is the magic “book of Chinese”. This book would, obviously, need to be written by someone who knows Chinese, and indeed could be construed as nothing but a set of instructions for describing how they would reply to any given statement – including, e.g., any that would refer to their emotions, experiences of the world, preferences, etc. Thus, the room becomes equivalent to having an intermediary between the outside world and the true Chinese speaker – one that functions in a marvelously complex manner. However, while this does counter the argument, it does not support Strong AI either, as it still relies on having an authentic (human) Chinese speaker to work.

By another reply, the worker in the room is merely a component in a larger system – which, taken as a whole, does know Chinese. The immediate reply is to obviate the room itself, by having the worker simply memorize the entire book, and then claim that this also implies that there is no longer a part vs. system relationship going on. (ibid., p. 419)

However, internalization doesn’t work as described. For one, as mentioned above, the book would need to be the equivalent of an entire speaker’s knowledge-base, etc. This would mean an extremely (infinitely?) large “book” – hardly plausible for any other human to memorize. For two, this maneuver still doesn’t obviate the system – it just hides it.

The Chinese system in this internalized “Chinese room” is not “simply a part of the English subsystem” (419), but the opposite – it is the superset. The English system (as envisioned) is the part of the operator that only knows English and follows certain rules; the “part” that speaks Chinese is the totality. In fact, one could say that the operator himself is not conscious of knowing Chinese – he doesn’t, no more than his hippocampus “knows” English. As Searle says (lecture), this is a question of levels of description.

I would like to take that point one step further than Searle does, however, and claim that it applies to consciousness as well. As with neurons that are not “conscious” in the same sense that we are – though they (and the limbic system, etc) make up the totality of our structure – still manage to create consciousness as a higher-level phenomenon, so too could be described the room – internalized or not – as being made up of lower-level consciousness (the operator, his tools, and the book), to constitute a higher-level one (the room). Obviously, the operator will not be aware of this any more than the neuron.

This argument can be extended, of course. In fact, in many ways it is similar to the counterargument against the “irreducible complexity” of Creationists. Their claim – and Searle’s – is that some property arises spontaneously, whole, and special to “us” – whether that be humans or mammals in general. However, it can be broken down, and all the steps leading up to it still can be comprehended as types of consciousness – though the farther you go from the integrated whole that is ours, the stranger it seems to call it the same thing. (A direct analogy is the evolution of humans’ “camera” eyes. [Coyne, part V].)

As Block (1997) points out, there is more than one component to “consciousness” as we conventionally think of it – and these components can be experienced (if the word applies) by themselves or together. Likewise, these components too have sub-systems, such as all the varied apparatus that goes into creating a cohesive visual percept. Lesion patients (such as prospoagnostics) give us examples of people who are, in some sense, not “conscious” to the same full extent that normal people are.

These do, indeed, combine to justify Searle’s remark – “… now the mind is everywhere. What we wanted to know is what distinguishes the mind from thermostats and livers…” (420). I will agree with the first part of this; it does entail a sort of universal mentalism.

The latter part, however, is misguided – in the same way as it is misguided to ask, “What essential property distinguishes us from chimps? Dogs? Mollusks?”, and expect them to be utterly disjoint in their makeup. As I have said, the system is conscious; it’s just a somewhat different sort of consciousness than the operator’s; likewise his stomach is a different sort, and likewise his cat. They are related by a sort of ‘genetics’ of similarity – as Searle says in dozens of places, by both behavior and structure we begin to believe other entities to be conscious. Entities more distant from us in behavior and/or structure are necessarily “conscious” in more and more distance ways – from the prosopagnostic who demonstrably has a different experience of normal life, to the cat who has markedly different physiology and senses, to a mollusk that lacks most of the complicated apparatus that enables us to process complex thoughts.

Thus, I would suggest that the “other minds” problem is best accepted as inherent, and turned on its head – that we not to try to grant or deny membership into the League of Sentients, but rather to acknowledge that it is our very ability to understand that guides our intuition in this. Empathy – both by saying “this entity is similar to me” and “this entity reacts in a similar way to me” – leads us to conclude that that other entity’s experience is like ours; this is inescapable.

It provides the limit to what we are capable of making meaningful assertions about, when it comes to others’ experiences – be it that of being a cat or a bat, or anything else. Insofar as we are similar to machines, we will be able to say that their consciousness is or isn’t similar to ours; if we create something that mimics our brain and behavior neuron for neuron, we will then be forced, chauvinism aside, to give it the same “polite convention” as we give ourselves.


(Note: While I am siding with the “standard” Systems / Impossibility replies, I’m also trying to make two [to my knowledge] novel points, which are similar to that of Systems but significantly different. Call them the “Empathy Limitation” and “Reducible Complexity” replies; relatively briefly dealt with here, due to space limitations.)

References:
Jerry Coyne - “The case against intelligent design: The faith that dare not speak its name”, Edge online. http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/coyne05/coyne05_index.html, accessed 9/25/05.
John Searle – “Minds, brains, and programs”, The Behavioral and Brain Sciences (1980) 3, pp. 417-457.
Ned Block – “On a confusion about a function of consciousness”, The Nature of Consciousness (1997), ed. Block, Flanagan, & Güzeldere, MIT Press, London.



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[info]nicked_metal
2005-10-11 10:09 am UTC (link)
I agree with you, although I'm not sure that you've argued your case particularly persuasively. Then again, given the word limit (I assume you've hit the word limit), you only have time to state your case, not argue it. Full points for guts and style in confronting the teacher head-on!

Are you familiar with the hierarchy of alienness? It seems a useful sort of concept to apply, although not from an overly-citable source, unfortunately.

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[info]saizai
2005-10-11 06:13 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I was right at the limit, and trimming at that. Maybe in ten pages, I could explain it semi-decently.

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[info]lymme_a_bean
2005-10-12 03:34 pm UTC (link)
How would such a hierarchy address members of one's own species whose experience is sufficiently different, in an irreducible way, as to make them feel alien? Examples, from the perspective of the perceptually normal, would include true synaesthesiacs, autistics, empaths, and Helen Keller. In science fiction, human telepaths would fall into this category.

Also, genius or mental illness/disability of some sort would produce this effect (prosopagnostics, schizophrenics, lobotomized patients, extraordinary geniuses...).

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[info]lymme_a_bean
2005-10-12 03:36 pm UTC (link)
Please take into consideration in my comments below that I do not know the specific paper you are referring to (though I do know something about the Chinese Room, prosopagnostics, and the "What's it like to be a bat" philosophy of mind stuff).

I don't agree with a few of the things you said, and furthermore, I think I lost what your point is.

One major problem with the Chinese Room as a "mind" is that it can't learn, while a real human speaker can. I don't think it actually could pass a Turing Test. By learn, I don't just mean a simple mechanism by which it could learn a new word, I mean really learn a new way of thinking- to be able to experience something new and express that experience in a meaningful way.

Furthermore, I do not think it could pass a Turing Test because almost all real people do not speak in grammatical, complete sentences. They are constantly making errors and going in new verbal directions. Language is a symbolic way of representing thought, which is itself higher-order and not symbolic.

Lastly, I would like to point out that that which we can understand and that which we can make meaningful assertions about (to third parties) are not the same. Empaths frequently experience attributes of others' experiences that we are unable to effectively communicate to third, non-empathic parties. In a more mundane sense, people who can see will have insurmountable difficulties discussing color with those who have been blind from birth. What makes effective communication possible is not merely that the experiencer and the object of his/her experience are similar, but that the audience is also similar.

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[info]breckan
2005-11-08 03:42 am UTC (link)
The problem with the Chinese Room to my mind is this:

being human isn't just about neural processing, or intelligence. Its also about a HUGE data-bank of associative memory holding a HUGE data-bank of all kinds of information.

A sufficiently complex machine could emulate a human response. The question then is:

Are humans just simply "human" because they have a very massive computer that can give responses beyond obvious calculation and because they have a vast databank of knowledge which broadly overlaps with other humans? In that case a computer would probably be capable likewise. If a human lacked this databank - had no experience nor neural connections based on experience, would we still count them as "human"? On what basis? Potential? How would you measure that conceptual "potential" in a way that a massive computer with no databank wouldn't also pass.

So I think you hit a functional barrier - there is no obvious test to tell if humans should be considered a massive computer with massive pdata, or "something more".

Last thought: Is it appropriate to penalize a computer, for not having been given the sensory experiebnce humans acquire in 30 years or so? And if a "sufficiently complex computer" had the equivalent of the hundreds of billion of data-inputs a human has, and these were constantly fed with data equivalent to the results of its "choices" and the "environment"..... why would it too not develop emotion and wisodm at least to a point we couldn't functionally tell if these were human or not?

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[info]saizai
2005-11-08 03:50 pm UTC (link)
That's a standard functionalist reply; if you look up the original paper, Searle has a response to it.

Also, we're presuming that the computer *is* at sufficient level to be functionally equivalent; the whole point is to ask, is that enough?

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[info]breckan
2005-11-08 06:29 pm UTC (link)
In that case it seems a valid question to ask. I do not say there isn't "more". But I'd like to be sure if we say there is more to it than that, that we know what we're claiming humans have, and its not just a "fudge-factor".

For example, if humans have spirit, how exactly does spirit affect human-ness? What would a human be if you left their neurology and memory but removed this spirit? If humans have energy fields, and we can detect it,. would making a computer able to detect it also be adequate? If we have unusual computational processes, if those were mirrored in artificial devices, would that be sufficient? if we are instinctively wired for some things, is that sufficient?

I don't say that this "means" we are or aren't either way. As it happens I have deep spiritual beliefs that say humans and other life-forms have something that non-living material doesn't. But you wanted people able to be neutral and critical. Thats my neutral critique of my own view..... it just means that I'd want to know exactly what essential difference between human and "sufficiently complex and data-driven" computer is being seen as "the important difference".

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[info]saizai
2005-11-09 12:42 am UTC (link)
Spirit - that invokes dualism, which Searle argues against elsewhere (Chinese Room attacks strong AI), and which I agree with him on.

"Energy fields" - rather depends on what exactly that means, ne? And by the same principle, whether they would be able to have them.

"Unusual computational processes" - again, that's the whole point: is it "just" computational processes, or is there something else to all of it? Strong AI claims the former. Searle says it's, in principle, impossible to have a computer "mirror" what we do.

Can you support your spiritual belief philosophically? What do we have that non-living material doesn't, and how can you prove that? For that matter, can you reliably tell the difference? (Not easy...)

The important difference to Searle's mind is that we are conscious and computers aren't, and that we do things that computers can't and don't bother to - they just mimic the effects, through a completely different implementation. It's postulated that they are capable of exactly mimicing the effects - of course, you can attack the argument by saying that's false, if you don't care to defend strong AI.

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[info]breckan
2005-11-09 03:15 am UTC (link)
Which neatly brings us back to my original concern which was not a philosophical one, or a statement of belief in one view or another, but a pragmatic one -- could we tell the difference? Are we capable? Could we ourselves reliably distinguish "something that cannot be computationally implemeneted" from "too complex to know if we can"? My guess is, we can't within the bounds of consensual senses and testability, and that therefore this is inherently untestable within science as we know it and likely to remain that way indefinitely.

Now, my personal spiritual beliefs -- which I don't care to force on others or let override my sense of testability ;-) -- are roughly, that we are expressions of what Is, broadly non-dual, and that if we were aware of it we would feel and know this through our awareness, directly, whether that be through an enhances type of consciousness of our nature, or some other means. So in that sense my personal suspicion is that in the end, there will be a human sense which we could all agree to, which is consensual reality, and by means of which a living being and a computer could be distinguished. But as this is outside both science as we know it, and human consensual reality as we know it, it's as good as false for the purpose of this discussion, and included only for interest and to make clear where I feel the answer might turn out to be, in the end.

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[info]saizai
2005-11-09 09:21 am UTC (link)
The opposite of solipsism?

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