katie alicyn ([info]flierkat) wrote in [info]abstractthought,
@ 2008-05-31 14:08:00
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I got into an interesting conversation last night about misery, contentment, idleness, creativity, and motivation. Misery and hardship have been one of the great motivators throughout our past. Obviously, it is when you don't like something that you work to change it. If you're content then you don't work to change something that works for you (if it ain't broke don't fix it), right? Writers, philosophers, artists, activists all came into being to express their pain and, in some cases, their subsequent dynamism to change it. They needed adaptivity/creativity/ingenuity to overcome their situations. They needed an outlet in order to survive, to evince change.

Amazing. To be revered. That the spirit is not crushed, but bubbles over instead.

But then, you have people who have seen those who have come before them. They have seen that it takes a smelting of the internal ores to shine. And they want that. Only--they aren't miserable. Where then should they find this most effective spring of motivation? They've already overcome any foreseeable hardships. So what then, idleness? That burns them. They don't want the hum-drum, they want the exceptional, they want the best. So they create misery to wallow in in the hopes that it will keep them from stagnating. They don't attempt to ward off the things that bite at them because they want the misery to be their motivator.

But it exactly is not. That is broken thought. That is handicapping your spirit. That is insanity.

Creativity can seed, germinate, root, and, blossom in joy. It does not need to be planted on a craggy hillside to grow. Yes, it is amazing when that happens, when that twisted little tree does find the nutrients and handholds on the rockface that it needs to survive. But a tree in good soil can grow amazingly in all of the bounty provided to it as well.

Content does not have to equal complacent. A sense of happiness and satisfaction does not stop creativity. It is a different route to it, like the highway (speed) vs. the scenic route (beauty). Fear and pain may provoke immediate reaction and aversion (the change), but they may not be the best ways to enact that change. There may be a more enjoyable way to learn, if only a little more time were taken to find it. And why would you deny enjoyment when it is so readily available like that? When it is offered up to you?

You shouldn't. It is crazy not to accept it.



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[info]confliction
2008-05-31 06:54 pm UTC (link)
Do you have any ideas as to what the path is from contentment/happiness to creativity/motivation?

On a different note, i read your third paragraph and thought you were going to mention inferiority complexes arising in the face of 'those who came before'. Any thoughts? :)

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[info]enders_shadow
2008-05-31 08:38 pm UTC (link)
Why should one feel inferior because of those who came before?

Most who came before me (or you, or anyone living right now, for that matter) are dead and forgotten. Most who came before were just another average Joe, chugging along, eating, sleeping, breathing, dying, and maybe having a kid or writing a book along the way.

Most who came before are as impressive (or unimpressive, depending on POV) as those who are right now.


Of course, "those who came before" might be more specific than the general sense I am using it in.

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[info]confliction
2008-05-31 09:39 pm UTC (link)
I didn't mean to imply that the feeling of inferiority was a necessary outcome of being aware of those who came before oneself. I just thought phrasing it like that would sound better than 'sometimes i feel inferior to those who came before me'. I'm sure others get that feeling too. But why? Are we confusing the people with their legend?

If we only strive to become another average Joe, chugging along, eating, sleeping, breathing, dying, and maybe having a kid or writing a book along the way... would we even get that far? Would we 'progress'? Maybe we need the lofty legends to live up to?

Sometimes i feel as if i'd be more content leaving the legend up to other people and just... well... chug along. There are other things that can drive a person beyond reputation... sometimes i think of how i could avoid one altogether. Unfortunately a lot of the means to such an end are illegal.

Generally or specifically... interesting points :)

Where do you fit into all of this?

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[info]enders_shadow
2008-05-31 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I am like a pendulum, I swing back and forth. Sometimes I crave to be a legend, to change the world, to be spoke of for years to come. Sometimes I could care less, and feel the world should end tomorrow, for that is the best possible outcome.

Sometimes I want to hermit forever, sometimes I want to be center stage with all lights and eyes on me.

I've done some acting, and I know the rush one gets from applause from an audience. I also know the solitude of silence, and the beuaty of the naked world, unadorned.

Which is better? Depends on which day you catch me.
Today? Today I want to walk the earth, like Jules in Pulp Fiction. But I'd rather not be a bum.

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[info]confliction
2008-05-31 10:41 pm UTC (link)
I find it hard to be an exhibitionist... the conditions for such behaviour i'm still trying to figure out. The wrong kind of attention invariably leads to debilitating self-consciousness and analysis.

I can see the media making things easier... it is usually 'after the fact' and can in turn be toyed with.

I also don't see the issue as polar... why can't i change the world and not become legend? Or not care less and survive the end of the world ala Zombie Apocalypse. I wish.

I've done some acting, probably less. The problem there being that when someone else writes the script and enjoys slapstick comedy... and the audience doesn't get the jokes and think it's just me being a terrible actor/literally fucking things up... it does your self-esteem little good. Can anyone spell Awkward? I guess in that sense i've probably nearly felt what a comedian feels when he bombs. Suffocating.

I've often thought about the walking the earth option... without some serious monetary backing there seems no choice but to 'bum' off of others along your way... perhaps in exchange for mostly menial services.

An interesting thought... assuming we all 'swing' between our chosen poles (could be multi-polar)... what were the 'greats' swinging from/to? and where were the real nasty pieces of work likewise swinging from/to? What determines, so to speak, which stop one gets off at? Does it really boil down to which day of the month we're 'caught' on?

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[info]flierkat
2008-06-01 12:54 am UTC (link)
there needs to be an initial act of creativity which is reinforced by external praise or personal satisfaction/pride. with repetition the behavior (creativity) should increase in frequency. positive reinforcement rather than learning through punishment or negative reinforcement.

on the other note: there are great figures who we admire and wish to emulate, but every life, every person has different experiences/upbringings/societal influences that is unproductive to compare lives. because how could you decided what equates with what accomplishments/tribulations to decide who's come out mentally/physically/emotionally superior?

instead focus on the traits that compose a person worthy of admiration and act towards adopting those. not as a facade, but actually incorporating them into your own personality/style.

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[info]jayyy
2008-06-01 03:14 am UTC (link)
that's funny, some of my best works of art were things i made exactly for myself, and never shared with anyone.

food for thought.

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[info]confliction
2008-06-01 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Positive reinforcement... good point :) What kind of art are these happy self-assured artists going to make? Will there be anything that motivates them to critique the world around them? Or will their art just be 'the world is great' drivel? I guess these questions are pretty dense... many factors go into influencing an artists work.

So i am confusing the legend with the person. As role models they do serve a purpose as long as one is good at emulating character traits. At the moment i'm absorbing House.

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[info]flierkat
2008-06-02 02:17 am UTC (link)
i'm not saying that you will be happy/giddy/content all the time. we encounter strife on a day-to-day basis from which we can find material to grow on. i'm saying don't create/seek-out conflict and misery under the misconception that it is necessary for greatness.

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[info]confliction
2008-06-02 02:59 am UTC (link)
Good point... we're not merely generalizations ;) Or, as my physics teacher used to say, non-dimensional points with least resistance.

I thrive on big strife and am crushed under small strife. I wonder why i can't find any material to grow on social conflicts... i don't seek them, i avoid them.

Anyway, this isn't about me. Something i must learn. Perhaps all i am saying now is that... if you ever want to write or rewrite this piece again for yourself or others... the feedback you have gotten and the responses you gave would make it clearer and refined.

But obviously you know what 'conflict' is for ;)

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[info]flierkat
2008-06-02 01:15 pm UTC (link)
ty.

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[info]root_fu
2008-06-01 08:41 am UTC (link)
Art is shit these days for the most part.

It's over-glamorised nonsense born of bad movies and ridiculous pop culture stereotypes. It's all about being rich, beautiful, and famous. Art is just a way people try to use to accomplish one of the 3, which is why it suffers.

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[info]flierkat
2008-06-02 02:09 am UTC (link)
for one: this line of thought is not constrained just to art, it can be applied to any field which craves expression and problem solving.

and two: no, you're wrong. art is huge. it constitutes anything and everything under self/cultural expression. a very small part even concerns itself with "being rich, beautiful, and famous". i don't know what or who disenchanted you, but go rediscover art because its thriving.

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[info]root_fu
2008-06-02 07:16 am UTC (link)
: T

Maybe if you gave me some examples of art thriving I might have to re-think my opinion.

I guess I'm not seeing it.

; x

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[info]revolutemind
2008-06-01 09:53 pm UTC (link)
I would deny said enjoyment to avoid tripping into the same trap you claim 'creating misery for the sheer purpose of milking its inspirational juices' sets. Perhaps today's aspiring artist places too much value in answering the question 'where did the meaning from this come from' and making sure that answer is legitimate before actually setting about ripping some scars in their canvas. As much as I love history and its mythologies, when it comes to the question of 'Is this your highest expression?' one needs to say Fuck You to the question of origins.

While I agree that contentment isn't necessarily the death of spirit, I think it is a precarious, even dangerous state of existing. Conflict is mother's milk to us creatures, it's bred right into our tissues and mythologies; contentment, sly little Devil that it is, invites one to ignore both in favor of a truly insane state of mind, self-preservation.

Edited at 2008-06-01 09:53 pm UTC

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[info]flierkat
2008-06-02 02:13 am UTC (link)
i'm not saying that we don't need some conflict to create change. i'm saying don't create/seek-out conflict under the misconception that it is necessary for greatness.

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[info]revolutemind
2008-06-02 03:40 am UTC (link)

Your counsel is smart; far too many times I have seen the mistake made of tension manufactured for the sake of tension, as if the cheap parlor trick would magically confer upon the architect meaning. They did not realize they should drink from it like a fount (or swim in it, as my favorite metaphor for it goes). I might then say, that yes, happiness has its own tensions, and also joy, etc.

Therefore; wise counsel for artists: Thou shalt not substitute pale, watered-down, easily manipulated and controlled conflicts in place of the genuine article.

In part I must also respectfully disagree on the subject of greatness; what greatness possible without first the struggle; what honor without the sanguinary; what satisfaction without the hunger, and what joy without doom? Many folks see binaries here, and in that mistake think they can be trumped. I see paths winding from one to another, as necessary as origins and destinations on one's line of travel. But it is less a disagreement and likely more a matter of different illustration.

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[info]livinwonderland
2008-06-09 09:11 am UTC (link)
I enjoyed this writting alot, and I found it inspiring because iv'e thought of this concept before.Occasionaly putting myself into situations to 'stir things up' just to avoid going idle as you put it. Knowing full and well that its not the right way, it is the way for immediate change. I can deffinitly remember writting more poetry, and making drawings that I loved when I felt sad, I think though, this is partially because sadness and grief are not always as easily, or wholey expressed and understood in talking the way joyful emotions are. So they leave behind more rubble...needing to be swept away somewhere.

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