I'm Full Of It ([info]bsdotcom) wrote in [info]011808,
@ 2008-01-21 11:34:00
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A Response To The NY Times Review: I've Seen Cloverfield... Twice

And I love it.

Sorry all, this an in-depth review of the film; mostly because I am so peeved over the NY Times review for Cloverfield. Warning: I read *way* too far into the film; also, I spoil *everything*, so don't read if you haven't watched. I hope you do enjoy though.


For those with little time, here's my quick review (stolen from [info]dj_jonny_flash): if you love a great monster flick, go see Cloverfield. As a co-worker asked, "So, it's like Godzilla meets Blair Witch?" Bingo. A little campy at parts, a little heart-pounding and scary at other parts, it's, overall, a great movie.


My Beef With The NY Times' Review

I feel that to describe my feelings and thoughts over Cloverfield, I need something against which to push and pull. So I chose a review that I believe wrongly maligned this movie: I feel that Manohla Dargis wrote what is the worst review of the film I have come across.

The title to her review, "We’re All Gonna Die! Grab Your Video Camera!" reveals, what I feel, is a gross misunderstanding of the current "young" generation of American culture. With the rapid growth of digital technology capabilities, along with the wide availability of such technology to consumers in the West, we have arrived to what may be the cusp of a revolution in how we experience the world. For instance, watch the video "Bringing The Iraq War Home via YouTube" for a better understanding:


At one point a soldier speculates that if armed forces in Vietnam had digital cameras, they would have filmed themselves as well. Interesting that it is through these homemade, grainy uploads Americans can see a different side of the war that is not present within mainstream media. Even with a project as powerful and moving as The War Tapes, the viewer is subjected to censorship: towards the end of the movie, one of the soldiers relates a story about his officer not allowing certain footage to be shown because of the graphic nature of what was filmed. Thus, it is with this generation that we are put into the most horrific of circumstances to understand the Other's point of view.

Okay, So YouTube Can Be An Exercise in Narcissism, But...

My capital "O" in the previous section is intentional; it is not a typo. It is a nod to Levinas, in that maybe filming our lives can help (although not completely) the responsibility we have to others, because seeing it from (something that is closer to their) point of view is critical. As there is no way around human community, we want to share our experiences with others; as Ferdinand De Saussure wrote, (paraphrasing here) "We want to know others and be known." Now why am I going off the deep end with post-structural theory? Because Dargis takes a stab at the same thing in her review: she feels Cloverfield itself is spawned from the "simulacrum syndrome in the post-Godzilla age at the intersection of the camera eye with the narcissistic 'I'." In that small quote I hear echoes of Jean Baudrillard, Jacque Lacan and even Gayatri Spivak. Hence, I am trying to respond with the tools that she herself uses. And in this case, I'm trying to say that if she applies post-structural theory to this film and walks away empty-handed, I find it interesting, because I feel I (briefly) did the same and came back with something worth ruminating about. Especially at the very end, when we watch two desperate people record their last message; a last minute where we watch two people desperately plead to let their voice, their lives, be heard.

Just Because The Story Is Simple Does Not Mean It Was An Stupid Film

What I find rather ironic is Dargis' simplistic reading of the film. She states that "the film is too dumb to offend anything except your intelligence." To her it is a vapid monster flick with utterly-annoying young adults with too-pretty faces. On one I level agree. It is a genre-flick. A popcorn movie that, despite 9/11 references, does not pretend to be anything else. But it can be enjoyed on more levels than that. Immersing yourself in adrenaline-pumping action of the last part of the film, you can come back the the deeper structure and story of the film. What is that underlying story?

As Dargis writes, "this new monster is nothing more than a blunt instrument designed to smash and grab without Freudian complexity or political critique, despite the tacky allusions to Sept. 11." Do we always need a King Kong? Do we always need a monster with which we can sympathize, so that we in turn can face the monster within us? No. In fact, I feel disappointed by the assertion that the monster itself should be a complex metaphor for something other than a giant killing machine. That is not the point of the story for this film; rather, the monster is a means to reach the the larger thrust of the narrative: the destruction of the main characters' lives. .

Ok, ok, if you really want a metaphor, let's try this: as the monster mindlessly destroys Manhattan, it points to the larger destruction of life, seen through the tiny lens of five friends. Does that work? Sure, maybe there is no "depth" to that, but that does not mean it is emotionally empty: we feel attached to these character's; we do feel pity in spite of their stupid bravery... because of their mindless bravery. As for annoying allusions to 9/11: many people rushed backed into those towers to rescue others. Despite the demands of police and fire officials to evacuate. People lost their lives running into a building that everyone else was running out of; do we call them stupid? No, they cared for the Other person. Rob cared for Beth, and although I cannot exactly account for why his friends followed (maybe, just maybe they cared about Rob, too? a possibility), they thought it wise to be available for the Other, to be responsible for the Other... because let's face it, who was going to be? The military? They were evacuating...

Moreover, to attempt to insult Rob by writing "heroism without a fully realized hero proves [...] a dead end" misses the twist in this story: for a glamorous Hollywood big-budget action flick, audiences expected a happy ending, a successful good-has-overcome-evil, the-world-is-saved-let's-rejoice-over-the-fact-that-Will-Smith-has-saved-us-again type of film. We did not get that. Therein, lies the rub. We saw a group of people act heroic, only to die for their attempt. That sounds a lot more realistic (so much for simulacra???), a lot more like real life.

Yes, It Made References To 9/11... And This Is Why They Weren't Vulgar

At the end of the film, we see two people fail at their attempt to survive. Realizing this, they record their last moments, and we see Beth break down and cry, "I don't know why this is happening." I feel this reaches further into the tragedy of 9/11 than many other films, the reason being the mindlessness of the monster. Being (briefly) trained in post-colonial theory, I can see other people's objections immediately: I am not saying that the attackers were mindless (they have their reasons... reasons that we, stuck within the hegemonic discourse of Western culture may not ever be able to understand), but rather that the victims cannot know why this tragedy befell them. Why do we need a driving motive derived from Freudian theory for the monster? (besides, have you read Deleuze and Guattari? Why do we need a mommy-daddy-me Oedipal triangle so as to lend "credence" to the film???) This film is only a(n action-oriented) record of six people's suffering... nothing more.

All suffering contains an impenetrable element of mystery; from Job to theVirginia Tech Massacre, many people will always be left wondering, "why," with no semblance of an answer. Even in the viral marketing campaign for the film we are not clear on what the monster is. But do you notice what effect this has? The audience is thus inscribed within the narrative of the film: we also are left wondering, simply, "Why?"

The answer is we will not know. For a film that is ONLY about recording the suffering of six friends, albeit through the means of an action-genre flick, this movie does a good job at showing the lives of these people (literally) fall apart. And that you are disappointed that this film doesn't make conclusions for you is mind-boggling. This film doesn't pretend to be a entirely political polemic on 9/11 even though you wanted it to, is mind-boggling. Yes, it makes references, but those references were not the end goal: the movie, to reiterate my point yet again, was only to show the suffering (at an adrenaline charged pace, nevertheless), and, as I also mentioned before, that reaches further into the events of 9/11 than many other films I have watched. Feeling horrified after Marlena's stomach exploded, I left the theater with that same feeling of horror. I walked down 42nd Street to the Q line, and even after reaching home in Brooklyn, the horror of watching these people die stuck with me. That is powerful.

In Ending

Okay, enough with my rant. From the first earthquake to the credits, my heart raced. The action was great, and the special effects stellar. Sure some of the comic-relief was a little annoying, but it was still fun ("Oh my God?! Are you aware of 'Garfield'?"). And some of the acting a little campy. But how kick ass was it? The action was intense (like when tanks and army men firing bazookas appear out of nowhere? I almost want that sound designer to win some kind of award), the story was sad (everyone died right? Or was Lily the only one to make it out alive?), and it was different: no happy ending. And, honestly, I liked that.




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[info]pellnell
2008-01-21 08:39 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you completely about Dargis's review. Personally, I love the Times, but I don't always agree with their film analysis (for example, why doesn't No Country for Old Men have a starred review while Enchanted does?). It seems that with everyone I've spoken to about the film though, there is either a "love it" or "hate it" response. I've seen it three times now, and I think it's a brilliant exercise in visceral horror.

That said, I think I am more apt to agree with A. O. Scott and Stephen Holden's reviews (and I was quite happy with Holden's fair treatment of the horror-comedy Teeth in the same issue as Dargis's critique of Cloverfield).

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[info]bsdotcom
2008-01-21 08:51 pm UTC (link)
glad to know someone else who loves the times feels the same way about the review; i thought maybe only fans who don't read the times would agree with me.

and 'visceral horror'... a great phrase... i'm going to add that to my vocab, if that's okay with you :P

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[info]pellnell
2008-01-21 08:58 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, after the midnight showing on Thursday, "visceral horror" was just the best way to describe it, I think. It's really an amazing exercise in fear on so many levels.

I tend to over-analyze films, but I feel there is so much more to get out of this film than just a scary monster movie. And for those who follow the game, it all comes together in this amazing package.

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[info]grygon
2008-01-21 09:47 pm UTC (link)
i wish i could follow the game, but i'm on dialup.

i hope someday someoneone will put a game-walk-through or some kind of detailed story.

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[info]bsdotcom
2008-01-21 10:01 pm UTC (link)
try http://cloverfield.despoiler.org/

although, it seems to be not working at the moment...

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[info]bsdotcom
2008-01-21 10:03 pm UTC (link)
ah, a true fan! alas, i couldn't do midnight... too much work to do the next day, too tired from work already

and yeah, i'm a king of over-analyzation... good to know there's like company around these parts of LJ :-)

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:)
[info]grygon
2008-01-21 09:47 pm UTC (link)
Do we always need a King Kong? Do we always need a monster with which we can sympathize, so that we in turn can face the monster within us? No.

You didn't feel sorry for Clover? I totally did. I mean, just imagine how you would feel if you were suddenly the largest thing alive (I bet Clover had plenty of room for itself down in the ocean) and had things hurting you and cramping you in small spaces where you had no CHOICE but to knock some things down just to walk?

Ok, ok, if you really want a metaphor, let's try this: as the monster mindlessly destroys Manhattan, it points to the larger destruction of life, seen through the tiny lens of five friends.

Maybe I'm too much of a science lover to think that this movie needs ANY metaphors. :) But I don't think it was mindlessly destroying Manhattan. It was trying to survive just as the group of friends were. Animals never do things mindlessly.

As for annoying allusions to 9/11: many people rushed backed into those towers to rescue others. Despite the demands of police and fire officials to evacuate. People lost their lives running into a building that everyone else was running out of; do we call them stupid?

The only reason people even make the connections to 9-11 is cause the friends ran back into giant falling buildings. If you're making a movie about New York being destroyed, that is gonna happen no matter what. When, in a much smaller city, people run back into a 5-story building (as opposed to a 50-story building) do we make the 9-11 connection then? No. People are too sensitive. But had they put Clover in a smaller city it wouldn't have been as much fun (cause you could SEE him then).

for a glamorous Hollywood big-budget action flick, audiences expected a happy ending, a successful good-has-overcome-evil, the-world-is-saved-let's-rejoice-over-the-fact-that-Will-Smith-has-saved-us-again type of film. We did not get that. Therein, lies the rub. We saw a group of people act heroic, only to die for their attempt. That sounds a lot more realistic (so much for simulacra???), a lot more like real life


GOOD. I can't tell you how sick I am of movies that end in the usual fashion. Happy, yaay! We all lived, omg! BE HAPPY!

SUCK! I hate that tradition. How about REASLISM, like Cloverfield gave us more often in movies? The last movie I saw that I can think of gave us a REAL ending instead of crappy sappy happy was Pitch Black (and it's successor/sequel The Chronicals of Riddick).

Why do people always want a "good" (meaning happy) ending? To me a "good" ending means a REALISTIC ending. :)

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Re: :)
[info]bsdotcom
2008-01-21 09:59 pm UTC (link)
um, first and foremost:

thank you thank you for taking time to read through the whole thing... for some reason, i just usually don't expect that with such lengthy posts.

interesting, i forgot that the monster is an animal with needs too... maybe i should write: "Ok, ok, if you really want a metaphor, let's try this: as the monster mindlessly destroys Manhattan, it points to the larger destruction of life, seen through the tiny lens of five friends." ??? :)

and as far as the 9-11 connections... it is more than just people running back into buildings. when i talk to people who were here before me, talking to them... it has... it's own code. for instance, "i was at _____ when it hit." that last part, "when it hit" is used a lot; just like rob telling his mom about the brooklyn bridge: "when it hit"

and yeah! it's about time for a flippin' unhappy ending! for some perverse reason, i was happy when it was over and i realized "whoa, everyone's dead!" maybe it's just because i was so happy it wasn't another will smith-ending (*ahem*)

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Re: :)
[info]grygon
2008-01-21 11:06 pm UTC (link)
thank you thank you for taking time to read through the whole thing... for some reason, i just usually don't expect that with such lengthy posts.

No prob. I just glanced over it at first, realized I had a lot to reply to and so copy-pasted it into my reply and then deleted it as I read, saving the things I wanted to respond to. Easier for me to read long posts that way.

interesting, i forgot that the monster is an animal with needs too... maybe i should write: "Ok, ok, if you really want a metaphor, let's try this: as the monster mindlessly destroys Manhattan, it points to the larger destruction of life, seen through the tiny lens of five friends." ??? :)

It's up to you, I just wanted to make sure that you realized that though. :) Just like in the American version of Godzilla where the lab-coats explain "she" is just looking to brood. I bet Clover too had reasons for being where he/she was, and then all of a sudden people start hurting it, it's gonna act just like a very big, angry and frightened dog (or horse, or whatever). It just wants what every animal wants- safety.

and as far as the 9-11 connections... it is more than just people running back into buildings. when i talk to people who were here before me, talking to them... it has... it's own code. for instance, "i was at _____ when it hit." that last part, "when it hit" is used a lot; just like rob telling his mom about the brooklyn bridge: "when it hit"

Hmm... ok. But then how can you make a film like this with OUT making connections to 9-11? I seriously doubt it was JJ Abrams explicit intent to make connections to 9-11 in even the slightest degree. But because of the content of the movie, they had to happen.

And I've used "when it hit" before (mostly for weather related events here). It's a common phrase for many things I think. But if I was around the attacks of 9-11 wouldn't I use "when THEY hit"? I don't know, just something I think about since I really don't think of 9-11 as the airplanes ("it"), but the people who were controlling the planes ("they").

and yeah! it's about time for a flippin' unhappy ending! for some perverse reason, i was happy when it was over and i realized "whoa, everyone's dead!" maybe it's just because i was so happy it wasn't another will smith-ending (*ahem*)

i was glad it ended how it did but i still did blurt out "that's it?!" when the credits began rolling, mostly cause i did want to see more of the monster. lol. but i was glad to see some characters die. at least lilly got out, so there is one survivor of that group. and she's probably gonna be living her whole life thinking back to the friends she lost and how she lost them. which is real too.

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[info]lalablue
2008-01-21 10:04 pm UTC (link)
I read that review before I saw the movie. After seeing the movie I really had to wonder if the critic watched the same film I had. The movie; despite an atypical unhappy Hollywood ending; was heartpounding and heartwrentching. Marlena screaming for Hud as she is being dragged away by men in biohazard suits had to be the most gutwrentching scene I've witnessed in a while.

From what I gathered Lilly was the only survivor.

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[info]bsdotcom
2008-01-21 10:13 pm UTC (link)
i wanted to ask the same thing!!! 'cause i swore i watched this movie called cloverfield that was really good...

and yes! marlena... you know, her being dragged away and the stomach exploding really put the movie into the horror genre for me (but, in a good way). it seems horror flicks now a' days are one of these two: they have scary parts that make you jump (white noise, dark water, etc) or they're excessively gory. i feel this went beyond that and made me horrified over such loss of life. i actually felt ill right after that scene, but it was so effective!

and yeah, i tried to post a thread earlier today asking whether or not lilly survived, but for some reason the moderator did not approve the post... the thing is, there is something that crashes when beth/rob's helicopter is taking off... my friend assumed that was lilly's helicopter, which made me rethink whether or not she lived??? hmmm....

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[info]digitalmuse13
2008-01-24 04:04 am UTC (link)
I don't remember seeing anything crash, but I saw it twice this past weekend. The first time, I thought she had gotten out but friends I was with said they saw her copter crash too, so when I went back I watched carefully... and Lilly's copter has a good couple minutes head start on the other one. I really don't see how she couldn't have gotten out.

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[info]kelsie
2008-01-21 10:50 pm UTC (link)
Absolutely.

I flat out don't understand why some people don't appreciate this amazing piece of work. It baffles me. I've seen it twice since the 18th and plan on going again.

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[info]winterwooskie2
2008-01-22 12:35 am UTC (link)
I find this Times review really funny, because while I think that Cloverfield is a mostly shallow experience when it comes to 'political critique' and 'Freudian complexity' (UGH, sorry, but a Freudian reading does not make anything complex at all, and this movie was never meant to be Mourning Becomes fucking Electra), I think it's a brilliant piece of film-making that makes amazing use of the medium to give popcorn movies a new, satisfying spin.

Also, it's totally a comment on the way in which we perceive disaster and record information and stuff. Liek, deep, man.

(I generally take issue with critiques that something is too simplistic, too smash-n-grab - let's be a little more postmodern, here, plz - the author is dead, audience creates meaning. I mean, let's not forget, the 9/11 subtext was initiated before the movie's release, I'd say that's a subtext that the audience has helped shape and interact with.)

(the Times is probably just butthurt over the fact that Clover fucked their office up)

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[info]digitalmuse13
2008-01-24 04:06 am UTC (link)
(the Times is probably just butthurt over the fact that Clover fucked their office up)

I'm rolling on the floor. Exactly!!! :-D

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[info]bleedingspade
2008-01-24 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I think your review is one of the best thought out ones I've read.

I felt the same way piece by piece. I loved this movie. Love this review.

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[info]proggrrl
2008-01-26 08:22 pm UTC (link)
That's a great icon you've got there.

Just sayin'.

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[info]bleedingspade
2008-01-26 08:31 pm UTC (link)
Why thank you!

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[info]proggrrl
2008-01-26 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Terrific review. I don't trust Manohla D. Ever since she panned WAYNE'S WORLD in the 90s, while still writing reviews for the Village Voice, I've been wary of her. There are a lot of genres she doesn't seem to appreciate. But give her an eight hour epic by Andrei Tarkovsky, and she will be first in line with the kudos.

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[info]lauraorganasolo
2008-02-05 09:53 am UTC (link)
I came to this community to try to find more info on all the meta stuff I missed and found your review in the process.

I hope you cross-post this every relevant place you can because this is not only a fantastic counter-point to negative reviews of the movie but also a well-written defense against picky film critics.

Personally, I dislike all film critics as a whole except for Dave White. X3

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